ahmadiyyafactcheckblog

Do not think that I was PURPOSELY trying to be offensive. I just wanted to get your attention. Now to my points:

I’m 68 year old. I’ve witnessed, either directly or indirectly, the MISTAKE that people of whatever group, whether it be Hare Krishna, Nichiren Shoshu, Ahmadiyyat, Baha’i, political groups, etc., often make when they allow themselves to forget that, WITHIN THEM lie the “Book of God”–an inner guidance that will steer perfectly IF they listen to it.

Too many people give over their entire selves to the INTERPRETATIONS of others. “God” can always be USED to justify anything. I have witnessed that, when that happens, weak people or people who are really trying to be sincere and please God can be manipulated.

I do understand that she was born and raised in a belief system that she believes and honors. It’s tough, too, because it’s not a Western system. The individual; the family; the neighbors; the GROUP are all tied strongly. To make a move that appear to be outside of that system spells something akin to DEATH–social death. No doubt she felt that she had “no choice,” if she wanted to “stay alive” socially within the group. Or, maybe she even strongly believed.

But, she was wrong. I don’t mean that she was BAD, no. She make a mistake, perhaps (in my opinion). She had a choice. She did. Ultimately she could have refused him, despite the pressures she no doubt felt. Pressure or not, I give her NO EXCUSE. It is way PAST time for human beings to listen to The Voice of God within them. It was Hazrat Isa, alaihe salaam, who said, “The Kingdom of God is within you.” That is PRIME–first.

Now, as regards HKM3, it seems to me that, even Islamically, he had every right to marry her if she accepted. I know what you’re saying: She was under pressure. He took “advantage” of it. But, why not? Tell me, and I’m no expert on Islam. I ask you in a cordial way, not to fight: Was he wrong, Islamically? If he asked to marry a 25-year-old woman, was he wrong Islamically, in your opinion.

If he was not wrong, then he DID nothing wrong. She accepted. I’m 68–happily married for 29 years now. Yet, as happens when a man gets older (and as my big brother prepared me for, decades ago) I WISH BEYOND ANY WORDS that I could have a young woman again. My big brother, decades ago, half-jokingly said the following: “Get ready, little brother. It’s coming! OLD AGE is coming. When that happens, a man begins to feel his mortality very strongly.

“He will want to assure his immortality. And that way that’s DONE, little brother, is through having children. It’s biological and psychological–no man avoids this. He’ll want to pass on his genes. That is a form of immortality.”

It’s true. Of course, I fast on Mondays and Thursdays, to keep my passions–both physical and MENTAL passions–down. But, I have never known a man who DIDN’T desire to have the company of a young woman again, when he got old. In the West, pitiful rich men will BUY young women, and BEG them for even ONE MONTH of their company, telling them, “Even if you see young men, that’s okay. Just give me two days a month.” It’s pitiful. And, since they’re not Muslim, they don’t have a proper focus; they don’t know about the joys of prayer, fasting, reading Qur’an, etc. Muslims might look down on them. I don’t. To see such a man elicits sorry in my heart.

In this regard, I am HAPPY that I am not rich. I tell you, brother, that were I rich, the way I feel now, the temptation to purchase a young woman would be oppressive. I am not sure that I could resist.

I understand clearly what you mean about this young woman now being “unable” to marry again, since she was married to an “Amir-ul-Momineen.” But, brother, that is HER FAULT. Seriously. I don’t care what cultural, community, “religious” pressure she felt, she was FREE to say “NO.” And if, after that, she would have been ostracized, SO BE IT. HKM3 was NOT Almighty Allah. If it meant leaving her community to find another Muslim man, that’s what she should have done. There is NOTHING in Qur’an about not marriying a “non-Ahmadi.”

By the way, I’m not against Ahmadiyyat–not at all. I’m against people acting like SLAVES. I once exchanged letters with HKM4. We ARGUED. Everybody thought I was nuts, or going to be hit by a bolt of lightening. But HE was cool with it. We had a good argument. When I got TOO nasty, he simply said, “I’ll not continue our exchanges if you’re going to get like that.” He didn’t threaten me. He didn’t kick me out of the Jamaat. But, often, people act like leaders are GODS. Not me. Leaders have their function. They are NOT to be worshipped. PERIOD.

I do not participate in the Jamaat–have not done so in many, many years, actually. I do not condemn it. I do not condone it. I got what I wanted, by the Grace & Mercy of Almighty Allah, from the Jamaat. Allah Blessed me, I believe. But, I’m not ordinary. I wasn’t born a Pakistani Ahmadi, feeling that I was trapped; that all my thinking should be done by OTHERS.

Anyway, I DON’T feel sorry for her. And I DON’T condemn HKM3. But, again: Let me know if you feel he did something wrong Islamically. I don’t think that he did, but I’m interested to hear your opinion.

wasalaam,
RD

Salaam,

I reproduce all of your points below, and then respond:

1. I didn’t think that you were offensive at all.

OKAY.

2. I agree with your first 3 paragraphs.

OKAY.

3. In your 4th paragraph, you mentioned that something about “western-culture”? I don’t quite understand. Do you think its superior to Desi culture?

FIRST OF ALL, I do not know what you mean by “Desi culture.” No, you totally misunderstood my reference to Western culture. Read it again. I was making the point that Western culture DOES NOT HAVE the constraints that a more traditional culture has. At one time, it did. But Western culture has gone down the tubes. I was trying to make the point that she did not live in a culture where she could willy-nilly go do whatever she wanted to do. She lived in a TIGHT, traditional culture, where parents, relatives, neighbors, society-at-large, the Jamaat, etc., would be watching her. Yet, as I said before, she DID have a choice. There is always a choice.

4. She had no choice. She could not refuse the Khalifa, she would have been shamed for the rest of her life.

She would have been shamed if she CHOSE to remain in a situation that she could, instead, leave. She chose to stay in that situation [I’m assuming].

5. Do you know about their honeymoon? Its a sick story. He died while on this prolonged honeymoon.

Sorry, brother, but I don’t deal with such rumors. I doubt that anybody knew a single thing about what happened on their honeymoon. That’s just typical rumor-mongering. And even if she made some statements about something bad happening, what she SHOULD have done is DIVORCE him if she was being abused. I offer NO excuse for people–women or men–to remain in a situation in which they are being abused. But, as I said: I can’t go by rumors.

6. Per who’s Islam?? Islam isn’t some thing that is easily defined. Governments define Islam. The Ottomans and Mughals are some recent examples.

I don’t know what point you’re trying to make here.

7. Mirza Nasir Ahmad was wrong for taking advantage of his position of power, he raped this girl for months, then he died of a heart attack abruptly.

Raped? Brother, if they got LEGALLY MARRIED Islamically, then he didn’t rape her. He had SEX. And if a 73-year-old man could have sex with a 25-year old, then I have a favor to ask you: PLEASE send me whatever homeopathic medicine he used!!! LOL!!!!! I’m 68. And if I don’t perform my Qigong meditation and physical exercise routines regularly, I can FORGET about having sex!! So, be a good brother, if you will: See if you can send me WHATEVER homeopathic medicine he was using. My understanding is that the Ahmad family specialized in homeopathy. Anyway, you told me that they MARRIED. So, how can you call sex in marriage RAPE? Yes, a woman CAN be raped during marriage, rather than be treated decently in normal sex. But, if she didn’t get a divorce, the blame goes on HER, not him. No excuses. I

f she choose to be raped, then she was STUPID. I don’t care about her fear of being ostracized. At some point in a person’s life, they have to STAND UP and defend themelves, I don’t care WHO her husband was. As I told you, I ARGUED with Mirza Tahir, in email, strongly. He respected it, though he was right to tell me to cool down. So, you know, one cannot be worshipping a human being. If she chose to be RAPED, within a marriage, rather than get a divorce, then she was worshipping a human being, which is called shirk. But, I was not there. So, the charge of rape is just a rumor, that’s all.

8. Then you rave about younger women. I don’t know your circumstances however. I am not sure what to make of these statements.

All I was saying is that it is a biological and psychological normality for older men to crave younger women because of the fact that, when you age, you begin to sense your mortality. And young women represent your chance for immortality through passing your genes down by having children by her. It’s purely biological and psychological, not something immoral. So, my point was that it seems to me that ONE reason he was attracted to her is because it is a natural function of the human male to sense his mortality when he gets older, and then crave for a young woman. I has absolutely nothing to do with immorality, or anything like that. Islam makes a way for this by allowing marriage.

9. Ahmadi’s would never allow her to marry again..she would be killed. She is still alive.

I certainly cannot comment about whether or not she would be killed. Again: If death was staring her in the face because of a decision to marry after Mirza Nasir died, then she should have CAREFULLY made a way to go to another country. Women are SMART. They can find a way, I don’t care what the situation is. Again: I can’t comment on this thing about her being killed had she married again. You might know something that I don’t know, but there is no reason I should take your word for that. I would think that you would agree.

What questions did I miss?

I don’t think you missed anything.

Islam calls for justice. This was not justice. He was an old and fat man, and lame.

Well, brother, I seem to recall something, and you can correct me if I am wrong. There is a saying–either in Qur’an or hadith, you tell me which one. That saying goes like this: “Your mate has a right over you. Your relatives have rights over you. Your neighbors have rights over you. The wayfarer in the streets have rights over you. BUT YOU HAVE RIGHTS OVER YOURSELF.”

What that says is that people have the right, and the duty, to TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES. If that woman FORGET THAT; if she chose to look at him as if he was Allah; if she chose to fear the Jamaat, and its members, over Allah; if she chose to put everybody else’s needs over her own, then she violated the principle of guarding one’s OWN RIGHTS.

Now, one last thing: If this story that you are telling me is true in all its details, then the women of the Jamaat had better learn how to TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES. And although, in my view, there is plenty of instruction in Islam to guide women to take care of themselves, I offer the following, 3-minute and 19-seconds video produced by Julie Burns Walker, a medial intuitive who has clients all over the planet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7DMq20LqTw

In my opinion, and in the opinion of Ms. Walker, whom I know, people have for too long not CHALLENGED that which is handed down to them by parents; by relatives; by their religious leaders; by politicians. There is a degree of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY that one must take so that one will not be influenced by the “Core Lore” that Ms. Walker so briefly and correctly spoke about. If Ahmadi women are being abused–if ANY woman is being abused–then she must take are of herself, and not sit back like she’s the “weak, helpless little woman,” even if it means marrying outside the Jamaat.

OR, they can remain SLAVES to Core Lore.

Oh, there IS one more question you did not answer: Was his marriage Islamically legal? I say that it was. What do you say?

ADMIN

3. She had no choice at all. This was forced upon her.

She had a choice. She could have refused his offer of marriage. She did not.
4. She was only married to the Khalifa for 7-10 weeks, the Khalifa died while on his honeymoon.

So what? He had no control over when Allah would end his life. And she knew that in advance. She’s not some innocent victim. She KNOWING went into that marriage.
6. Governments define Islam, no one else.
No the do not Allah defined Islam. Your talking pure nonsense.
7. He used sex drugs just like his father and his grandfather. Its called Zadham e Ishq. Look it up, its on this very blog. She was raped for weeks!! Then the old man died.

You were NOT in the bedroom with them, so you don’t know a single thing about what went on between them. You were not there.
8. Brother…I don’t support any man who takes advantage of women.

She VOLUNTARILY entered a marriage. So there was no advantage taken of her by him. I am SO happy I was not raised in WHATEVER country you come from. Because the people from your country are probably like you: spread rumors about things they know nothing about; charge someone with rape when they never saw a person raped; condemn a legal marriage. Maybe that’s why the West keeps BOMBING Muslim countries: Allah’s punishment for violating Islam by turning their BACKS in Qur’an, as you have done by openly and shamelessly violating the teachings that it of Islam. YOU are the culprit here, not HKM3. You might as well fill your plate with pork, and your glass with wine. Why not? Since you SO EASILY violate Qur’an by spreading rumors, you might as well convert to Christianity and eat some pork. You are a disgusting man. May Allah forgive you, before you drop dead and end up in hell.
9. I disagree with the rest of what you wrote