Intro
In Oct-1891, MGA and his team were in Delhi and looking for Muslims to debate. On Oct-2-1891, they began publishing announcements and inviting Maulawi Muhammad Nadhir Husain to a debate. Another announcement was published on 10-7-1891 and then 10-17-1891. The debate itself was held on October 20, 1891, in the Jami‘a Masjid, Delhi, where more than five thousand people gathered. MGA went to Jami‘a Masjid, Delhi with 12 of his disciples. There was a European Superintendent of Police with a Police contingent watching the entire situation (See Hidden Treasures).
The debate barely lasted a few minutes. At the very beginning of the engagement vs. MGA, Maulavi Muhammad Nadhir Hussain declared that MGA did not believe in miracles, the Mi‘raj and angels and, therefore, he was an infidel and no discussion was possible unless he answered the charges first. At this point, MGA read out a manifesto of his beliefs, which clearly contradicted his books, Maulavi Muhammad Nadhir Hussain refused to accept MGA’s explanation, the police then forced all the people to leave the Jami‘a Masjid, Delhi, they then escorted MGA to safety (See Hidden Treasures). Ahmadiyya sources alleged that the crowd was so hostile and many had stones in their pockets and some were armed with sticks and knives.
MGA and his team wrote three letters to Maulavi Muhammad Bashir dated October 21, 22 and 23, 1891, and the following points were further laid down:
(1) the debate should begin after the Friday prayer at Hadrat Ahmad’s house,
(2) Maulavi Muhammad Bashir would write the first paper,
(3) Maulavi Muhammad Bashir would bring only one man with him,
(4) Maulavi Muhammad Hussain Batalvi and Maulavi ‘Abdul Majid would not be allowed to take part in it; and
(5) not more than five papers would be exchanged.
It should be noted that it was not agreed that the papers would be written in the meeting.
The debate started on October 23, 1891, on Friday. Maulavi Muhammad Bashir quoted in his paper five verses of the Quran to show that Jesus was still alive in the flesh. However, on 10-28-1891, MGA abruptly leaves the debate. MGA breaks his own contract, which is a serious crime per the Quran. Only 3 arguments had been put forward by Maulvi Muhammad Bashir Bhopali and no response had been given by MGA and his team. MGA flees to Patiala wherein his father-in-law was ill, however, Mir Nasir Nawab hadn’t accepted Ahmadiyya yet. Patiala was 157 miles to the west, about halfway home towards Qadian (see Dard).
This book carries a series of letters Muraslat No. 1, on page 221 onward that passed between Maulavi Muhammad Bashir and Maulavi Syed Muhammad Ahsan. Then on pages 483-507, under the heading of Muraslat No. 2, the letters passed between Munshi Bubah Shah, Munshi Muhammad Ishaq and the same devoted follower Maulavi Syed Muhammad Ahsan. They exchanged two letters. Maulavi Syed Muhammad Ahsan in his letter dated September 12,
1891, responding to the letter dated August 30 of Munshi Bubah Shah, discussed at length the points raised by him, specially the one in which Munshi Bubah Shah accused Mirza Ghulam Ahmad arrogating to himself the status of Ibnullah and ranking himself with Jesus Christ the son of God. Maulvi Muhammad Bashir Bhopali mentioned 4:159 as a main argument that Esa (As) was still alive.
This entire written debate scenario was published by MGA in 1905 under the heading, “Al-Haq Mubahathah Dehli (1891)”. Months after the debate, Muhammad Hussain Batalvi wrote about it in his newspaper, the Ishaat us Sunnah. Dard mentions this incident on page 297-299. This debate is also mentioned by Maulvi Sanaullah in 1923 via “Tahrik-e-Mirza“. Muhammad Basheer bin Hakeem Muhammad Badr-ud-deen Sehsawaanee, born in 1250 AH, the famous author of the book Siyanatul Insaan an Waswasat ash-Shaikh Dahlaan. He died in Delhi 1326 AH/1908 CE (See Tahrik-e-Mirza). The Lahori-Ahmadi’s allege that MGA used 65:10-11 as he argued against the physical descent of Eisa (as)(see Mujadid-e-Azim, online enlglish abridged version, pages 404-405).
_____________________________________________________________________________________________The story
MIRZA DEBATE WITH MOLVI MUHAMMAD BASHIR BHOPALI
In October 1891 When Mirza was in Dehli and had recently escaped from the debate with Molvi Nazir Hussain in the Jamia Masjid Dehli, Molvi Muhammad Bashir Bhopali who was a high ranking Scholar and one of the disciples of Molvi Nazir, challenged Mirza Ghulam Qadiani for a debate.
Mirza Bashir Ahmad MA son of Mirza Qadiani in his book Seeratul Mahdi Volume 2 at page No 90-91 giving the accounts of this debate, writes:- “after 3 or 4 days of Jamia Masjid incident, Hazrat Masi e Moud had a debate with Molvi Muhammad Bashir Bhopali at his house (the house that MGA was staying at in Delhi). It was decided that both parties would exchange 5 papers of arguments and answers with each others but when Hazrat Masih e Moud saw that Same old arguments which were refuted earlier, were being repeated by Molvi Muhammad Bashir and no new argument is being advanced from the opponent, he ended the debate on 3 papers. Hazrat Masih e Moud did not care the humiliation and mockery of the opponents. This debate has been published with the title of Al Haq Dehli. Readers can see Hazrat sb ended the debate when Molvi sb had exhausted all his arguments and he was only doing repetition.”
On the contrary, the actual detailed accounts of this debate has been published in the contemporary Magazines , Al Haq Assarih and Tarikh e Mirza pages 42-44. This has been compiled by Muhammad Rafiq Dilawari, author of Book Raees e Qadian, pages 341-344. Author RQ says that some body sent the Ishtihar dated 6 October 1891 published by Mirza Qadiani, for scholar of Dehli, to Molvi Muhammad Bashir Bhopali as well, who sent a reply to the Ishtihar to Mirza Sahib whereby accepting his all terms and conditions for debate. The debate was agreed on the following terms and conditions:-
1,Government security would be provided.
2.It would be a written debate. Each party would write his arguments in the session and would hand over signed copy to other for reply.
3. Issue of Life of Hazrat Essa a.s would be taken up first. If Life of Essa a.s is proved Mirza would leave his claim of Masih. And descending of Masih a.s would be discussed.
4. Any party quitting the debate without its final settlement, would be considered as the loser one.
However on arrival of Molvi Muhammad Bashir in Dehli, Mirza Qadiani in violation of earlier agreed terms and conditions added the new conditions that :
(a) the burden of proof would lie on Molvi Muhammad Bashir because he would be a claimant of life of Essa a.s.
(b) the debate would be held at Mirza,s residence with no public proceedings would be held.
(c) In all 10 persons would be allowed to participate. However Molvi Abdul Majeed and Molana Muhammad Hussain Batalvi would not be allowed under any circumstances.
(d) Debate would be limited to 5 papers only.
Although this was a violation of earlier terms and conditions yet Molvi Bashir accepted it. Molvi sb went to the House of Mirza and he wrote Five arguments in support of Life of Essa a.s on paper read it to the audience there and handed over a signed copy to Mirza Qadiani. Instead of writing reply in the session Mirza did not write its reply and said Ok you may leave now to come at 10 o’clock tomorrow. but when they reached next day to receive reply Mirza did not come out of house and send some one telling that the reply is not ready yet and you may leave for now. Molvei sahib will be informed as soon as the replies are ready. Peoples agitated this attitude to be a violation of the terms and condition but Mirza remained adamant. At 2 o clock they were again called by Mirza and a reply was handed over with the directions that rejoinder may be prepared at home and be delivered to him once it is ready. It continued like this for five days wherein 3 papers were exchanged. On the sixth day Mirza Qadiani announced that his father in law is seriously ill and he was quitting. Peoples said this is against the law which he himself had laid down but Mirza did not agree. Since Molvi Muhammad Hussain Batalvi and other ulema knew his level of learning, they had prepared a condemning article which was read over in Mirza, s presence peoples laughed at him made a mockery of him still it did not make any impact.
Actual reason for Mirza,s escape from debate was that as a claimant of Masih, Mirza had created two walled defence first wall being Death of Hazrat Essa a.s and the second one being descending of Essas a.s. Molvi Muhammad Bashir had destroyed his both walls and now Mirza Was to prove how he became Masih e Moud which eventually made him run for life.
(Screen shots of relevant pages Seeratul Mahdi and RQ attached)
SCANS
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Via Maulvi Sanaullah and “Tahrik-e-Mirza”
https://ahmadiyyafactcheckblog.com/2020/01/28/in-1884-mirza-ghulam-ahmad-claimed-that-the-quran-6109-4828-and-932-was-also-revealed-to-him/
Al Haqq al Sareeh p. 2
“””This debate was printed in a treatise, which was called “Al Haqq Al Sareeh fi Isbaat Hayat Al Masih (The Explicit Truth and Proof about the Life of Christ)”. The whole nature of this discussion as mentioned in the treatise is as follows:
Shaykh Muhammed Basheer himself expounded on the arguments:
“After all, this is the state of the debate that took place between me and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, who claimed to be ‘The Promised Messiah’, at Delhi. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani came to Delhi and published two announcements, the first edition published on the 2nd of October 1891 and second edition published on the 6th of October in the same year, challenging Maulana Syed Nadheer Hussain Muhaddith Dehlavi (May God extend his life) in which he challenged him
to a debate. Both announcements came under the vision of this humble person, with the intent to assist the religion, the Sunnah and to eliminate this vile heresy and innovation, I decided to go ahead with the debate. The answer to this announcement was submitted to Mr. Mirza through Mr. Haji Mohammed Ahmad Dehlawi, and all the conditions of Mr. Mirza are acceptable, except for the third condition I asked for a slight modification. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was kind enough to also accept this amendment. After the amendment, these three conditions which were accepted were:
● Firstly, there should be an official arrangement to maintain peace.
● Secondly, the debate between the parties should be in written format. Each party should write a question in the debate gathering and present it with his signature and the same way, the second party should follow it up with a response.
● Thirdly, the first discussion should be regarding the life of Isa Ibn Maryam (peace be upon him). If his life is established, then Mirza will give up his claim of being the Promised Messiah. Then there will be a discussion on the descent of Christ and Mirza being the Promised Messiah, and the person who will abandon the discussion from any side will be considered a renegade. Thus when the terms and settlement regarding conditions were decided, Mr. Haji Muhammad Ahmad, on the demand of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, summoned me.
Therefore, on the 16th night of Rabi ul Awwal 1309 AH, I left Bhopal and on Tuesday around 4 o’ clock, I entered Delhi. I informed Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani of my arrival. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani came with an excuse and modified the conditions as given below:
● You have to give proof of the life of Christ.
● Let the discussion be in this humble (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani’s)
house.
● It will be a private gathering.
You can bring only up to ten men who are distinguished, except Shaykh Batalvi
(i.e. Maulvi Mohammed Hussain) and Maulvi Abdul Majeed. The number of
papers should not exceed five and the first paper should be yours.
It was not at all necessary for me to accept these conditions, nor was it the opinion of my friends that we should accept them, but our intention was that Mirza should not find any childish excuse to avoid the debate. Thus we accepted these conditions and then on the 19th of Rabi ul Awwal, on Friday, after the Friday prayer, the debate began. I went to his house and initiated the debate. As agreed by the two parties, I wrote five arguments in support of the life of Isa (AS) on paper. This was read to the audience there and a signed copy was handed over
to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani excused himself from writing the answer in the assembly. Though Mr. Haji Muhammad Ahmad and others accused Mirza of breaching the covenant and opposing the agreed conditions, but lo and behold, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani declined and said that “I will write down the answer later on,” and asked them to come the next day at 10 o’ clock.
The next day we reached his house at 10 o’ clock. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was inside the house. We were informed by the messenger that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani would not come out and the answer is not ready yet. You will be called when it is ready. Then, probably around two o’ clock, we were called and finally an answer was made available that “there is no need to write the response in the debate assembly, you can take it to your house.” So I brought this writing to the house where I was residing. The discussion continued in this same manner
for six days. On the sixth day, I completed three papers which were read by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani. Then Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani cut off in the very first discussion by leaving the stage and the discussion was left unfinished. He made it clear that he had no room for staying any longer and said that his father-in-law was ill. At that time, we were writing an article in advance just in case Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani backed down or broke the agreed upon conditions. Since Mirza already did violate the conditions, we read the article which we had prepared, condemning him. This article was read over in Mirza’s presence. People accused him, laughed at him, made a mockery of him, but still, it did not make an impact. On the same day, he decided to leave Delhi in the middle of the night. This action of Mirza proves that he has no evidence of him being the Promised Messiah. He has concocted two pillars which constituted the fortress of his arguments.
1. The discussion on the life of Isa Ibn Maryam (peace be upon him)
2. The descent of Isa (peace be upon him)
When he felt that his sturdy pillar was about to falter, the intrinsically weak pillar would surely break, and that there would be an all-out-attack on his fortress, which would leave him exposed and hung out to dry, he recognized retreat as the best option. After leaving the discussion unfinished where Mirza was exposed, I stayed in Delhi for two days with delight and left on Saturday to Bhopal.
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Links and Related Essays
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and 4:159 (4:160 in the Ahmadiyya Quran’s), before the death of Jesus (as)
Mirza Ghulam’s Ahmad lecture in Amritsar (Nov–1905) was not a Lecture, it was a riot!!!
MGA lost the debate with MOLVI MUHAMMAD BASHIR BHOPALI (1891)
In 1891, when MGA made his big claims, he denied prophethood–Mufti Sadiq was heavily involved
https://ahmadiyyafactcheckblog.com/?s=ghost
In 1884, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed that the Quran 61:09, 48:28 and 9:32 was also revealed to him
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