Intro
It seems that on 3-12-1996, Mirza Tahir Ahmad had some type of discussion with an Arab-Egyptian on the famous Ahmadiyya program, “Liqaa Ma’al Arab”. The famous translator from the Odeh family is also in this video.
It starts off with the Arab man asking about the famous hadith wherein Ali (ra) was called the Khatam-ul Auliya. The Arab man said that he asked people at Al-Azhar University about it and they told him that this hadith is inauthentic. At 3:16, Mirza Tahir Ahmad admits that this hadith is not in the Sahih-Sitta (the 6 authentic books). Mirza Tahir Ahmad then keeps saying that Muslims have quoted it, however (3:52), Mirza Tahir Ahmad says that it occurred in Tafsir Al-Safi (full name: al-Safi fi Tafsir Kalam Allah al-Wafi) is an exegesis of the Qur’an written by 17th century Shia scholar Mohsen Fayz Kashani. At 4:32, Mirza Tahir Ahmad admits that the wording is different in other sources, for example, Ali (ra) is called “Khatam ul Asfiya” instead. At 7:40, Mirza Tahir Ahmad says that this isn’t the only argument that he presented, why isn’t this Arab man discussing the other pieces of evidence. At 8:13, Mirza Tahir Ahmad says that other Muslims scholars have defined Khatam-un-Nabiyeen as the “greatest”, not the last. The Arab man responds by saying that normally in Arabic the word “Azim” is used to connotate “greatest”. In a funny way, at 9:30, Mirza Tahir Ahmad pulls out his “purchee” (scrap paper with notes, like a pocketbook). Mirza Tahir Ahmad then gives 10+ refs without giving proper evidence.
At 13:25, the Arab-Egyptian asks Mirza Tahir Ahmad to go back to the issue with about the famous hadith wherein Ali (ra) was called the Khatam-ul Auliya.
At 19:00, Mirza Tahir Ahmad alleges that he had an Arabic teacher and had a conflict over the word Khatam (a total lie). Mirza Tahir Ahmad alleges that his Arabic teacher asked him to translate “Last of the Caliphs of the Ummayad’s”, and Mirza Tahir Ahmad used “ilzami jawab” and used the phrase “Khatam ul Khulafa of Bani Ummaya” (20:10), like purposely to create a stir. The Egyptian-Arab then tells Mirza Tahir Ahmad that he was wrong for this translation (20:17). The Egyptian-Arab says that Hazrat Umar (ra) was in fact, the LAST Khalifa from the Ummayad’s. At this point, Mirza Tahir Ahmad alleged that Ismail was a Khalifa later on from Banu Ummaya and even sent an expedition to India.
At 22:00, Mirza Tahir Ahmad says that the LAST king (of any dynasty) can never be called Khatam. Mirza Tahir Ahmad alleges that Arab’s only use the word “Khatam” to give compliment.
At 22:52, Mirza Tahir Ahmad alleges that per the Sunni belief, Allah forgot about how he ended prophethood and told us via 4:69 (4:70 in the Kadiani Koran) that other prophets can come.
At 23:01, Mirza Tahir Ahmad is visibly frustrated that this Egyptian-Arab has rejected the famous hadith wherein Ali (ra) was called the Khatam-ul Auliya since it is a weak source.
At 23:10, Mirza Tahir Ahmad says that per 7:35 of the Quran (7:36 in the Kadiani Koran), propehthood is wide open.
At 24:12, Mirza Tahir Ahmad says that Khatam only means the last of the law-bearing prophets. Mirza Tahir Ahmad argued that per 7:35 of the Quran (7:36 in the Kadiani Koran) and 4:69 (4:70 in the Kadiani Koran), subordinate prophets can come.
At 24:50, Mirza Tahir Ahmad admits to being upset. Mirza Tahir Ahmad says go ahead and reject all of my sources, let’s go to the Quran.
At 26:55, Mirza Tahir Ahmad argues that everyone cannot be a Nabi per 4:69 (4:70 in the Kadiani Koran). In conclusion, Mirza Tahir Ahmad says that anyone who follows Muhammad (Saw) can be given the “title” of nubuwwat.
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‘Khatam ul Auliya’ Qadiani argument killed
https://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2010/06/khatam-auliya-qadiani-argument-killed.html
‘Khatam ul Auliya’ Qadiani argument killed
In their bid to confuse the meanings of Khatam Al-Nubuwwah the Ahmadis try to seek evidences with various weak narrations.
The Ahmadi stand is that Khatamul Anbiya does not mean ‘The last of the Prophets’ rather they say, it means ‘Best of the Prophets’.On these lines they bring forward a narration according to which Holy Prophet (PBUH) said; “I am Khatam ul Anbiya and you O Ali are Khatam ul Awliya.”
They argue that as Ali cannot be the Last of the Awliya it means the word Khatam does not mean ‘the Last’.
The Truth:
The narration infact comes from Khateeb Baghdadi’s Tarikh Al-Baghdad where the exact wording is;
Authenticity of this narration:
The narration is in fact weak and not a valid evidence. Two of its key narrators are;
1) Abul Qasim Ubaidullah bin Lu’lu Al-Saaji
2) Umar bin Wasil
Just after quoting this narration Khateeb Al-Baghdadi says;
هذا الحديث موضوع من عمل القصاص وضعه عمر بن واصل أو وضع عليه والله أعلم
“This is a fabricated narration regarding Qisas and was fabricated by Umar bin Wasil or was attributed to him and Allah knows best.”
(Khateeb Al-Baghdadi 4/473)
* it is the ending of a longer narration whose initial part relates to Qisas.
Discussing the status of Ubaidullah bin Lu’lu Hafiz Ibn Hajr points to this narration and says in Lisan Al-Mizan;
روى عن عمر بن واصل حديثاً موضوعاً ساقه الخطيب في ترجمته
“He narrated a fabricated narration from Umar in Wasil, Al-Khateeb quoted it in his book.” (Lisan Al-Mizan 2/151)
Ibn Jawzi also quoted it in his Al-Mawdhu’aat 1/398
Interestingly Khateeb Baghdadi was recogized as Mujaddid of 4th century Hijrah by Ahmadis, Ibn Jawzi that of 6th century Hijrah and Ibn Hajr that of 8th century Hijrah.
Recently Shaykh Albani called it Mawdhu (fabricated) in Silsala Daeefa Narration 694
Reference of Shiite Tafsir al-Safi:
Well aware of the fact that Al-Khateeb has clarified the actual value of this narration just after quoting Ahmadis now quote it with reference to a Shiite Tafsir Al-Safi by Al-Faiz Al-Kashani. Al-Kashani (d. 1091 A.H.) quotes it under Qur’an 33:40 but without any chain. He writes;
في المناقب عن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله قال أنا خاتم الأنبياء وأنت يا علي خاتم الأوصياء
“[It is narrated] in Al-Manaqib from the Prophet, on whom and his progeny be the blessings of Allah, said; ‘I am Khatamul Anbiya and you, O Ali, are Khatamul Ausiya*.’” (Tafsir Al-Safi 4/193 with research of Shaikh Hussain Al-’Alami)
* the edition I have access to has the words Khatamul Ausiya instead of the alleged Khatamul Auliya.
How can a narration without any chain of narrators be an evidence? It is upon Ahmadis now to show us an unbroken chain of trustworthy narrators before they bring this as evidence.
Conclusion:
The narration as found in Sunni sources like Tarikh Al-Baghdad comes through a liar without any supporting evidence thus it has to be considered a lie and not a Hadith of the Prophet of Allah, peace and blessings of the Almighty be upon him.
The narration as found is Shi’a sources is without any chain of narrators which is as good as any word from hearsay.
This brings to our attention the following words of the great scholar Abdullah bin Mubarak (d. 181 A.H.);
الإسناد عندي من الدين لولا الإسناد لقال من شاء ما شاء وإذا قيل له : من حدثك ؟ بقي
‘Isnaad (chains of narrators) to me are a part of Deen, and if it was not for Isnaad, one would have said whatever he desired. When it is said (to the one who speaks without Isnaad): Who informed you? He remains silent and bewildered.’ (Khateeb Baghdadi’s Al-Akhlaaq Al-Rawi wa Aadaab A-Sami’ 4/392 Narration 1654)
Isn’t the situation of Ahmadiyya exactly same as the learned Imam described? Truly bewildered!
May Allah bring Ahmadis to true Islam!
Indeed Allah Knows the best!
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Links and Related Essay’s
The Odeh family of Kababir, Haifa, Israel are Qadiani-Ahmadi’s – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
The Odeh family of Kababir, Haifa, Israel are Qadiani-Ahmadi’s
Ahmadiyya and 4:69, everything you need to know – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad on 7:35 of the Quran (7:36 in the Kadiani Koran) – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
https://ahmadiyyafactcheckblog.com/2016/10/02/ahmadis-lie-about-735-of-the-quran/
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#ahmadiyya #ahmadiyyafactcheckblog #messiahhascome #ahmadiyyat #trueislam #mirzaghulamahmad
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