Intro
In Oct-2025, Bro Imtiaz debated Azim Saifi on prophets after Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
In this debate, Bro Imtiaz quoted:
1. “Eik Ghalti Ka Izala” (1901), RK-18, pages 214-215.
2. Urdu ROR-Mar/Apr-1915 aka Kalimatul Fasl, page 116.
3. RK-17 [Tohfa Golarvia], pages 318-319).
4. Malfuzat-5, page 58. Via the Al-Hakam, vol. 3, no. 1, dated 10 January 1899, pp. 6-9 (See Malfuzat-2, online English edition, pages 1-8).
5. Qaul al Fasl, via Anwar ul Aloom, jild-2, page 270 (1915).
6. Mirza Bashir Ahmad and his book, “The Truth about Khatme Nubuwwat” (see page 11).
7. Tashishazul Adhan-8, page 25, (Aug-1917).
8. —At 3:31:55, Bro Imtiaz quoted Tohfah Golarhviyyah, Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 17, p. 244
9. RK V. 22, p. 406-407)(See page 120, online English edition, Haqiqatul Wahi)(At 2:11:14) and his sons’ interpretations confirm that Mirza Sahib is the “only specified individual (fard makhsus)” in the Ummah to be called Nabi.
10. Taryaq ul Qulub (V. 15, p. 477-478) states that after his death, no complete (Kamil) person will be born from a mother’s womb. At 2:35:22.
11. At 3:50:57, Bro Imtiaz points how Azim Saifi called Abu Bakr (ra) a Rasul but a non-prophet, just like MGA did in Shahadatul Quran, RK-6, page 319, see page 26 of the online english edition of Shahadatul Quran.
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–At 0:35, Azim Saifi interrupts Bro Imtiaz and adds that if it is a problem for him (azim) to say (as) after the name of MGA, then say it now. He repeats it in a negative and disrespectful way and says that he doesn’t want Maulvi’s to get mad at Bro Imtiaz and ask why did you go there. Bro Imtiaz totally ignores the question.
–At 1:38, Bro Imtiaz starts, Bro Imtiaz tells Azim Saifi and the moderator to keep their mic muted when Bro Imtiaz speaks. Bro Imtiaz reads out his question, which has already been sent to Azim Saifi. It is written therein that MGA argued that after him, there would be NO “zilli-nabi”. Bro Imtiaz also wrote therein that “Inside Ahmadiyya, the possibility of a zilli nabi ended with the arrival of MGA”. What is a “Zilli-Nabi”? Bro Imtiaz explains that he using the Ahmadiyya definition from Ahmadiyya books. Bro Imtiaz explains that in Ahmadiyya, it is written that there are 3 types of prophethoods, the “Haqiqi-Nabi, the “Mustaqil-Nabi” and the “Zilli-Nabi”. Bro Imtiaz explains how in Ahmadiyya, the definition of a “Zilli-Nabi” is Muhammad (Saw) coming back in this world in a “zilli” and “baroozi” sense.
–At 6:54, Azim Saifi starts. Azim Saifi totally disagrees with the definition that Bro Imtiaz gave and even alleges that MGA never said as such. Azim Saifi argues that if anyone reaches a stage (maqaam) of perfection, he becomes zill (not asl). Azim Saifi says that this is what MGA said in “Eik Ghalti Ka Izala”. At 9:10, Azim Saifi alleges that there was a prophecy about the “zill” of Muhammad (Saw). Azim Saifi says that he was waiting for a reference to any book of MGA wherein MGA said that after him there would be NO zilli nabi. Azim Saifii ends him time early.
–At 10:09, Bro Imtiaz starts, Bro Imtiaz explains how Azim Saifi used specific language about reaching a station, this is wrong, Bro Imtiaz reiterates that this is about after MGA, someone becoming a zilli nabi. Bro Imtiaz asked for the reference that there was a prophecy about the “zill” of Muhammad (Saw). At 11:14, Bro Imtiaz presented, RK-18, pages 214-215, and how MGA wrote that “Khataman Nabiyeen” is now an “elahi mohr” (spiritual stamp) which has been affixed to the prophethood of Muhammad (Saw)(naozobilla) and this can never break. MGA says that Muhammad (saw) can now come back into this world 1000’s of times in a baroozi coloring. Bro Imtiaz explains that this has to do with imkan. At 12:43, Bro Imtiaz quotes Mirza Bashir Ahmad giving commentary on this issue of “zilli Nabi” in 1915 (page 116, Urdu ROR aka Kalimatul Fasl). Mirza Bashir Ahmad argued that a “Zilli Nabi” must gain all of the attributes (kamalat) of Muhammad (Saw) first, then he will be called Muhammad (Saw)(naozobillah).
–At 13:28, Azim Saifi starts. He says miraculously, Bro Imtiaz lost his entire case since the ref he presented allows for 1000’s of “zilli-nabi’s” (RK-18, pages 214-215). Azim Saifi alleges that in either “Chashma-e-Masihi” or “Chasme-e-Marefat”, MGA said that another prophet could come. Azim Saifi disagrees with the definition of “zill” that Bro Imtiaz gave. Azim Saifi also said that the “Zilli Nabi” is mentioned in the Quran. At 16:29, Azim Saifi warns Bro Imtiaz that he must say “Mirza Sahib”, and not the direct name of MGA.
–At 16:36, Bro Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz reminds Azim Saifi that in his first turn he mentioned that there was a prophecy about a “zilli-nabi”, that hadn’t been presented yet, in his next turn, Azim Saifi must present the Quranic verse. Bro Imtiaz says that he never gave any definition of a “Barooz”, instead, Bro Imtiaz gave the definition of “zilli-nabi”. Bro Imtiaz explains how in Ahmadiyya, the definition of “Buruz” is when a dead person’s soul enters the body of a living person and finds rest (sakoon)(See RK-17 [Tohfa Golarvia], pages 318-319). At 17:35, Azim Saifi interrupts. Bro Imtiaz explains how the definition “Buruz” can be found therein. However, Bro Imtiaz explains that he is discussing the “Zilli-Buruzi-Nabi”. Bro Imtiaz reiterates that the definition that he gave of a “Zilli-Buruzi-Nabi” in Ahmadiyya is someone who has also returned as the second coming of Muhammad (Saw). Bro Imtiaz explains how Azim Saifi has disagreed with this definition, Bro Imtiaz then says that in his next turn, Azim Saifi must give the definition of “Zilli-Buruzi-Nabi”. Bro Imtiaz reminds Azim Saifi to present the Quranic verse which holds the prophecy about the “Zilli Nabi”. Bro Imtiaz presented Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) as two people who should have been prophethood per the Ahmadiyya position, however, they weren’t, Bro Imtiaz asks why? Bro Imtiaz tells everyone that he has not used the phrase “Maqam-e-Nubuwwat” and indicates that Azim Saifi has used this to confuse things. Bro Imtiaz clarifies he is speaking of someone who claims to be “Zilli-Buruzi-Nabi” and “Rasul”. Bro Imtiaz points out how Azim Saifi is trying to relegate this debate to “if” (imkan) a prophet can come or not. Bro Imtiaz points out hos nonsensical this position is.
–At 20:46, Azim Saifi starts, again, Azim Saifi disagrees with the definition of “zilli-nabi” by Bro Imtiaz. Azim Saifi says that MGA followed (itaat) Muhammad (saw) was able to reach the stage (maqam) of “zilli nabi”. At 22:08, Azim Saifi alleges that 62:3 (62:4 in the Kadiani Koran) is the verse wherein Ahmadi’s believe that the Buruz of Muhammad (Saw) will come. Azim Saifi quotes (See RK-17 [Tohfa Golarvia], pages 318-319) and responds. Azim Saifi asked Bro Imtiaz to read this in his next turn. Azim Saif addressed the issue of why Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) didn’t become “zilli nabi’s”, Azim Saifi argues that it is not mandatory for everyone to reach this stage of “zilli-nabi”. Azim Saifi then quotes 24:55 and alleges that not everyone qualifies. Azim Saifi argued that it is purely up to Allah.
–At 23:57, Bro Imtiaz starts, Bro Imtiaz points out that in 62:3, there is no mention of any “zilli-nabi”. Bro Imtiaz points how Azim Saifi created a rule that whomever follows Muhammad (Saw) will become a prophet, however, this fails when we think about Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra). Bro Imtiaz reiterates this huge contradiction. Bro Imtiaz explains how when Azim Saifi quoted 24:55, he went off topic and this is not allowed. Bro Imtiaz reiterates that he never gave the definition (tahreef) of zill, in his first round, he also didn’t give the definition (tahreef) of Buruz (initially). Bro Imtiaz explains how he only gave the definition (Tahreef) of the “Zilli-Buruzi-Nabi” via a claimant in Ahmadiyya. Bro Imtiaz repeats that MGA’s son, Mirza Bashir Ahmad wrote that whomever is a “zilli-nabi”, he will acquire all the attributes (Kamalat) of Muhammad (Saw) and will be Muhammad (Saw). Bro Imtiaz reminds Azim Saifi that this is what MGA wrote himself in “Eik Ghalti Ka Izala). MGA’s son said the same thing in 1915 in Kalamat ul Fasl. Bro Imtiaz tells Azim Saifi that in his next turn, he will give a description of the “zilli-buruzi-nabi”, not station (maqaam).
–At 46:24, Bro Imtiaz argued back and forth with Azim Saifi about the definition of a “zilli-nabi”.
–At 58:15, Azim Saifi asks Bro Imtiaz for the reference for his definition of “Zilli-Nabi”.
–At 1:00:05, Bro Imtiaz gives the reference, it’s Kalimatul Fasl, by Mirza Bashir Ahmad, ROR-Urdu-Mar-Apr-1915, page 116. Listen to Bro Imtiaz’s explanation herein (42:12 timestamp).
–At 1:29:52, Bro Imtiaz quoted Malfuzat-5, page 58. MGA said, “without the mohr (seal) of Muhammad (Saw), there will be no prophet”.
–At 1:30:18, Bro Imtiaz quoted Mirza Bashir Ahmad and his book, “The Truth about Khatme Nubuwwat” (see page 11). Mirza Bashir Ahmad argued that “From now on, if a person wants to be a truthful prophet, then, only the person who has the “mohr” (seal) and “tasdiq” (attestation) of Muhammad (saw) will be allowed.
—At 1:37:34, in this reference, presented a reference from Tashishazul Adhan-8, page 25, (Aug-1917). Bro Imtiaz explains how Ahmadi’s argued that for a new prophet to come after MGA, that prophet would need to show a “Seal of Attestation” (Tasdiq walee Mohr). Furthermore, Bro Imtiaz explains that per Ahmadiyya beliefs, only one person has gotten this “Seal of Attestation” (Tasdiq walee Mohr), that is MGA. Ahmadi writers also said that if someone doesn’t have this “Seal of Attestation” (Tasdiq walee Mohr), then there prophethood is false. In Tashishazul Adhan-8, page 25, (Aug-1917), the Ahmadi writer argued that this is why there will be NO new prophets after MGA, the “possibility of prophets” has been negated by the Ahmadi writer. The Ahmadi writer went on to write that other than MGA, Muhammad (Saw)’s “Seal of Attestation” (Tasdiqee Mohr) doesn’t appear for any other prophet (See also 33:7 and 3:81). The article from the Tashishazul Adhan-8, page 25, (Aug-1917) has the heading, “Muhammadi Khatme Nubuwwat kee asl Haqiqat” (The truth about Muhammad’s claim of Khatme Nubuwwat)(See 1:55:05).
—At 1:58:10, Bro Imtiaz explains how this article specifically covered the possibility of prophethood after MGA (au sakhta hai?).
—At 1:59:00, Azim Saifi argues that MGA meant no prophets could appears in his era. Azim Saifi then argues that this doesn’t mean until the Day of Judgment.
—At 2:05:15, Bro Imtiaz asked Azim Saifi about how does Muhammad (saw) do Tasdiq of another prophet. Again, if a zilli nabi comes, how would Muhammad (Saw) do his Tasdiq?
—At 2:08:08, Azim Saifi alleged that Muhammad (saw)”nabi ul anbiya” as well as “Khatam un Nabiyeen”.
—At 2:09:30 points how Azim Saifi purposely misread Ahmadiyya literature.
—At 2:13:10, Bro Imtiaz quotes Qaul al Fasl, via Anwar ul Aloom, jild-2, page 270. Bro Imtiaz explains how the 2nd Qadiani-Ahmadi Khalifa wrote that MGA wrote clearly that no one else in the Ummah would be (Kay-lanay ka muskil) called a prophet.
—At 2:35:22, Bro Imtiaz quoted Tiryaq ul Qulub, this is Bro Imtiaz’s argument number-4. MGA said that after him there won’t be a “kamal” (perfect) person to ever be born through a woman’s womb.
—At 2:42:33, Bro Imtiaz quoted “Haqiqat un Nubuwwat” (1915), wherein the 2nd Qadiani Ahmadi Khalifa gave a counter argument to Lahori-Ahmadi’s who were alleging that MGA said that “baaz afrad” (average people) got the “laqab” (title) of nabi. The 2nd Qadiani Ahmadi Khalifa argued that the phrase “baaz afrad” (average people) = MGA only. The 2nd Qadiani Ahmadi Khalifa also argued that yes it is possible for more prophets to come, however, Khatm un Nabiyeen is a nullifier of prophets.
—At 2:46:16, Azim Saifi counter argued that MGA didn’t say that NO prophet until the day of Judgement.
—At 3:30:07, Azim Saifi argued that MGA isn’t the FINAL Adam (as), and another iteration could happen.
—At 3:31:55, Bro Imtiaz quoted Tohfah Golarhviyyah, Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 17, p. 244, and explained how MGA quoted 77:11 of the Quran (77:12 in the Kadiani Koran) and argued that he was included in the master list of Rasul’s.
—At 3:42:49, Azim Saifi says the world won’t end in the next 1000 years, and MGA never said so. Azim Saifi implies that the world will restart with a new Adam (as).
—At 3:50:57, Bro Imtiaz points how Azim Saifi called Abu Bakr (ra) a Rasul but a non-prophet, just like MGA did in Shahadatul Quran, RK-6, page 319, see page 26 of the online english edition of Shahadatul Quran. However, this argument was abrogated and shouldn’t be used, since it is before 1901.
—At 3:52:48, Bro Imtiaz presents argument #9 and explains how MGA called himself last of everything, from Adam (as) to Messiah.
—At 3:53:49, Azim Saifi argues that when MGA used the “Rasul”, MGA included prophets and non-prophets. Azim Saifi argues that in Shahadatul Quran, RK-6, page 319, see page 26 of the online english edition of Shahadatul Quran, MGA is arguing that MGA was referring to 24:55 in this case.
–At 4:00:43, Azim Saifi presented a reference from Khutbah ilhamia.
–At 4:02:05, Azim Saifi quoted MGA and argued that Rasul can also be non-prophets.
–At 4:17:10, Bro Imtiaz advises Azim Saifi to remove his banner which is always on his TikTok broads which states that “Prophethood is Continuous”, should be changed to, “After MGA, a perfect child would not come out of any woman’s stomach”.
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1905
Al-Hakam, Mar-19-1905
Ahmadis believe in Khatam-e-Nabuwwat
https://www.alislam.org/articles/ahmadis-believe-khatam-e-nabuwwat/
“The charge made against me and my Community that we do not believe the Messenger of Allah (peace be on him and His blessings) to be the Seal of Prophets is a big falsehood. The faith, the conviction, certitude and the utterness that characterize our belief in the Holy Prophet as the Seal of Prophets, are markedly absent in the belief of these people (those who level this charge at us).”
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1906-1907
Ruhani Khazain V. 22, p. 406-407
Haqiqatul Wahi
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1908
Malfuzat-5, page 58
Scan
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1915
Anwar ul Aloom, jild-2, page 270
At 2:13:10, Bro Imtiaz quotes Qaul al Fasl, via Anwar ul Aloom, jild-2, page 270. Bro Imtiaz explains how the 2nd Qadiani-Ahmadi Khalifa wrote that MGA wrote clearly that no one else in the Ummah would be (Kay-lanay ka muskil) called a prophet.
Scans
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1917
Tashishazul Adhan-8, page 25, (Aug-1917)
In Oct-2025, Bro Imtiaz debated Azim Saifi and presented a reference from Tashishazul Adhan-8, page 25, (Aug-1917)(1:37:34 time stamp). In this reference, Bro Imtiaz explains how Ahmadi’s argued that for a new prophet to come after MGA, that prophet would need to show a “Seal of Attestation” (Tasdiq walee Mohr). Furthermore, Bro Imtiaz explains that per Ahmadiyya beliefs, only one person has gotten this “Seal of Attestation” (Tasdiq walee Mohr), that is MGA. Ahmadi writers also said that if someone doesn’t have this “Seal of Attestation” (Tasdiq walee Mohr), then there prophethood is false. In Tashishazul Adhan-8, page 25, (Aug-1917), the Ahmadi writer argued that this is why there will be NO new prophets after MGA, the “possibility of prophets” has been negated by the Ahmadi writer. The Ahmadi writer went on to write that other than MGA, Muhammad (Saw)’s “Seal of Attestation” (Tasdiqee Mohr) doesn’t appear for any other prophet (See also 33:7 and 3:81). The article from the Tashishazul Adhan-8, page 25, (Aug-1917) has the heading, “Muhammadi Khatme Nubuwwat kee asl Haqiqat” (The truth about Muhammad’s claim of Khatme Nubuwwat)(See 1:55:05).
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1915
Kalimatul Fasl, pg 116
https://www.youtube.com/live/Qpb-gYlxZqU?si=sgHt2dXPIOyrds8Y
Listen to Bro Imtiaz’s explanation herein (42:12 timestamp).
Scan
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Links and Related Essay’s
Who is Azim Saifi? Qadiani-Ahmadi TikTok-er living in India – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
Tashhiz al-Azhan was a Magazine founded by Mahmud Ahmad in 1906, quotes and background info
33:7 in the Quran and the Qadiani-Ahmadi position (33:8 in the Kadiani Koran)
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and 3:81 of the Quran (3:82 in the Kadiani Koran) – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
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Tags
#ahmadiyya #ahmadiyyafactcheckblog #messiahhascome #ahmadiyyat #trueislam #mirzaghulamahmad
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