Intro
Abdul Karim is the father of Amatus Sami-Karim (she is the wife of Mahershala Ali). There are photo’s of him going back to the 1970’s as he attended jamaat events. Her father seems to have been the local jamaat President in Chicago-East in 2016. He gave an interview to the Qadiani Naveed Khanverse in 2016, which was published in the Ahmadiyya Gazette of Sep-Oct-2017 (See pages 44-52). Abdul Karim is also mentioned in Mahershalla’s conversion story.
Abdul Karim is from Mississippi and is from a Baptist Christian family, he was born in roughly 1940. In roughly 1957, he moved to Chicago to live with his elder brother. In 1962, he was 22 years old, he joined the U.S. military and seems to have served 3 years and got in 1965. He was then introduced to Ahmadiyya by a man named Masood Khan who took him to the Ahmadiyya temple on Wabash Ave in Chicago. He mentions the Mubahila challenge of Sheikh Mubarak Ahmad vs. Billy Graham in 1963, he claims that this affected him towards Qadianiat. Abdul Karim alleges that by 1965, he had understood Qadianism.
Abdul Karim alleges that Sahib Shihab was in-fact an Ahmadi (he might have quit later), as well as Talib Dawood, Dissical Isabel, Suleiman Saud, Ahmad Jamal and Yusuf Lateef. He claims that only Ahmad Jamal and Yusuf Lateef remained as Ahmadi’s and others may have left. He claims that John Coltrane never accepted Islam or Qadianism.
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His kids
https://www.youtube.com/live/E24TxneOqKQ?si=4yyz3bh1JwVtK1yS
daughter–Amatus
Son—name unknown, was dead by 2020
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1940
https://ahmadiyyagazette.us/Source/2017/Sep-Oct/Sep_Oct2017-EnglishSection.pdf
Abdul Karim is from Mississippi and is from a Baptist Christian family, he was born in roughly 1940.
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1957
https://ahmadiyyagazette.us/Source/2017/Sep-Oct/Sep_Oct2017-EnglishSection.pdf
In roughly 1957, he moved to Chicago to live with his elder brother.
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1962
https://ahmadiyyagazette.us/Source/2017/Sep-Oct/Sep_Oct2017-EnglishSection.pdf
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1965
https://ahmadiyyagazette.us/Source/2017/Sep-Oct/Sep_Oct2017-EnglishSection.pdf
He seems to have gotten out of the U.S. Military.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________1969
Allegedly, the USA Jalsa was held on August 30 & 31 at Dayton Ohio at the Ahmadiyya temple therein. Missionary-in-Charge, Maqbool A. Qureshi organized and chaired the event. The Jalsa consisted of 5 Sessions. including Speeches, Mission Reports, Auxilliary Meetings and Panel Discussions.
The main speakers were, Br. Maqbool A. Qureshi (Missionary in Charge), Muhammad Qasim (Dayton) Munir Ahmad (St. Louis,). Syed Jawad Ali, Bashir Afzal (New York), Dr. Bashiruddin Usama (Cleveland), Ahmad Shaheed (Pittsburg), Abul Kalam (Pittsburg), Yahya Abdullah (Baltimore). Abdul Karim (Chicago), Abid Hanif (Boston), Dr. Khalil A. Nasir (New York), Munir Hamid, (Philadelphia), Ahmad Wasim (Cleveland), Hanif Ahmad (Milwaukee), Muhammad Sadiq (New York.). Rashid Ahmad (St. Louis), Abdur Rahman (Balti more) and Fazl Omar (Waukegan).
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1977
Muhammad Waqar Ahmad for the 1st time while in Qadian. He was attracted to Yahya Ghani. He’s pictured above with his arm around his shoulder. Muhammad Waqar Ahmad is currently a member of the Chicago Jamaat. Bro Abdul Karim is there too, as well as Alhaj Dhul-Waqar Yaqub.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/Cc6wHbOL6Eu/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
https://www.academia.edu/40243138/About_Al_Na%E1%B8%A5l
Al-Nahl of 2014
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Interview with Respected Abdul-Karim
President Aḥmadiyya Muslim Community Chicago East
Interview by Naveed Ahmad Khan. Transcribed by Dr Mahmud Ahmad Nagi, Columbus, OH
Our Respected Brother, Abdul Karim President Aḥmadiyya Muslim Community, Chicago East, (left) was
interviewed by Mr. Naveed Ahmad of LostScribeRadio (right) on 14th October 2016. LostScribeRadio is an
independent radio and have motto Truth, Freedom, Love and Peace.
NAVEED AHMAD: Greeting. We are here today
with Brother Abdul Karim, President of Aḥmadiyya
Jamā‘at Chicago East. He is a well-travelled researcher.
He spent lot of his time learning religions. He has many
compelling stories that I would like everyone to gain
from and have him shared today with our viewers. I
welcome you to the broadcast. How are you brother,
Abdul Karim, today?
ABDUL KARIM: I am doing well.
NAVEED AHMAD: One of the things people don’t
know that lot of changes have happened during the last
several decades in technology, science, art and culture.
People don’t know some of the more compelling stories
of the past in terms of how people used to get
information? There used to be hurdles. For example,
you have to rebook to find someone who knows things;
mentor type. The other thing is that people also don’t
understand. It was little bit more difficult to get
accurate information. Now we have YouTube, global
technology and pdf available on almost everything. It is
easier to learn quicker now as oppose to before. I want
you to give us a little bit of history in terms of your early
youth and how you came to Islam.
ABDUL KARIM: As-Salamu ‘Alaikum. My name is
Abdul Karim. I want to give a little background and how
I came to Islam. I was born and grown up in
Mississippi. My family had a soccer office. As we grew
up, one day we were in a particular farm and my sister
said to me, “Everything that you do in this world, you
have to give an account for it.” When I cut my
fingernails, I used to put them in water to know where
they were to identify them. It is just to show you what
frame of mind I was in. I was in Mississippi for quite
some time. In Mississippi, my elder brother had been in
military. He came to Chicago and opened his own
business. He went to an Electrical College. He urged us
to come here in Chicago for better life. He said, “If you
do otherwise, I shall make sure that it happens.” He
shifted me there. It is strange how we loved Mississippi
so much. It is similar to the people of that time when
they loved Mississippi. We loved Mississippi especially
in summer. We had a contract with a plantation owner
for picking cotton from of crop. Month of June is crop
time. We were waiting for the cotton flowers to open. It
was an ideal time to leave the trade. My father being
Mississippian had many friends. They shall talk from
the afternoons and drink on Saturday nights. My father
like other people around does the same. One Saturday,
my father did not go there. He was waiting to move his
furniture to his cousin’s house in Tennessee. Our friend
working with plantation owner came there. He said the
man named Blue (plantation owner) is drunk and it
shall be better for you to leave today or tonight. The
people of the plantation owner won’t allow us to leave.
We were waiting from 2 p.m. to 8 p.m. fearing that the
plantation owner may come there. The truck came
around sunset. We started the journey through a back
road to 61 highways. We passed through a small town,
Mound Bayou, the only town in the area that was owned
by the blacks. They had their own Mayor and Police in
1957. Most of the blacks came there at that time. Most
of the Blues and musicians were from that town. As we
passed from there, we considered ourselves safe from
the people of plantation owner. In case they catch us,
they shall bring us back to the farm. Afterwards, we
reached Tennessee. My eldest brother was waiting for
us there. My other brother who shall take us to Chicago
was still to arrive.
Aḥmadiyya Gazette USA 45 September-October 2017
Finally, we arrived in Chicago. I studied at Hyde
Park High School in the city of Chicago. We lived in the
same block where the school was situated. It was
unusual. My brother made sure that we were
comfortable there. We were living in a place where we
could flourish. We were from Baptist Christian family.
My mother said to me one day that in Mississippi you
used to go to church every Sunday. Now since you are
here you don’t go to church anymore. I said to her,
“Mama, when I shall find that Christianity is true, I
shall accept it. I am not a hypocrite. That is how my
learning Islam came about. Now I had to actually prove
my stance.
NAVEED AHMAD: So, you made a decision that the
Baptist Christian faith is not for you at that time.
ABDUL KARIM: It was not. They were hypocrite
and that was the only reason. They had no philosophy.
They did not know what the religion talk. Jesus on the
cross and that type of things were not a problem for me.
I was not relying on that philosophy. On 63rd street I
used to see a missionary Aminullah Khan. He refused to
go back to Pakistan because he considered the country
backward. He adapted to modern ways of life in USA.
He was comfortable with that. He had assimilated
himself in USA. There was a Muslim barber named
Sultan who used to cut my hairs. He was a Muslim. I
was fascinated because he had a beard. He advised
about things here and there. I really engaged him about
the teachings of Islam. I admired him from a distance.
I did not finish my high school. I was behind. So, I
decided to drop out from day high school to a night
school to get my high school diploma. I was not from an
academic family. They one day told me, “Why don’t you
go and study GED and then go to college afterwards.” I
had no type of role model to encourage me to do and
make my journey shorter. I was in night high school for
three years. I finished it. Then I decided to do spring
semester at Columbia College. I turned 22 years when
United States put missiles in Cuba. The President of
Cuba told US to remove these missiles otherwise they
shall be removed. It created crises. During the period, I
got drafted into US military. I went to Michigan to
consult my cousin just to contemplate whether I should
accept the draft or go to jail.
NAVEED AHMAD: Backdrop of which war?
ABDUL KARIM: I was considered being drafted
into Cuban crises. Afterwards I decided not to be locked
up in jail. I took my chances and accepted the draft. So I
was drafted and posted in Fort Knox in Kentucky. That
day was 22nd November 1963 when President Kennedy
was shot. I became a bit rebellious in military. They
taught me MOLS. I was specialized in ammunition
storage. It was a war like situation. I was to supply
weapons and ammunition for military needs. After that
I was posted in France. I rebelled there. One day I
decided not to even stand with the flag. People looked at
me what was going on with the guy. I said to first
Sargent, “I am not comfortable around ammunition as
it makes me nervous.” The background was that I had a
record for not around ammunition. After six months,
they changed my MOLS from 411.1 ammunition
specialists to 0.74, which was actually special services.
So only thing I did on that point on was to train the
generation, which nobody wanted to do. I served my
time. I was discharged in October a month before my
stipulated time.
After serving the military I educated myself about
Islam. While in military I wrote to Elijah Muhammad.
He replied to visit him after military time is over. It was
1965 and I never wanted to visit him. There were some
of his members in the building where I was living. They
would give me Elijah Muhammad’s speeches to read. I
would also read their papers. On the back of the paper,
it was stated about mother ship and all such type of
things. It did not attract me.
I had an idea that we all are human beings. In
Quran, it is written that best among you is the one who
is righteous irrespective of what color or nationality you
are in. The best among the human race is the one who is
righteous. Then I looked around a place where I could
go. By grace of God, in the building where I was living
we had brother Masood Khan Latif. He got fed up with
the situation in the building. The guys in the building
were lecherous. I always was a person to work for my
living. They were not workers. Some of them were
musicians and others were artists etc. They did not
move from that place during my service to military. We
moved from there and I helped Masood Khan in moving
from the building. One day Masood Khan said to me,
“Why don’t you go to mosque with me”? My Allah
forced me to go to the mosque. I said, “Yes.” I went to
the mosque. It was Sunday. They gave speeches. There
was Adhān. They all prayed and then we had a dinner.
That mosque was in 4448 South Wabash Chicago. He
asked me, “What do you think about.” I asked what in
Adhān was said “Allah-o-Akbar.” He said, “It means
Allah is Great.” That was what I was also told by Elijah
Muhammad. That was the time I embraced the teaching
by reading books. I started going to the mosque
frequently.
NAVEED AHMAD: What was the first book you
read?
ABDUL KARIM: I do not remember the first book.
But the book that influenced me was “Islam in Africa.”
It was written by late Sheikh Mubarak Ahmad. He was a
missionary in Africa. One thing that stuck out was when
Billy Graham went to Africa to propagate Christianity.
He was invited by Sheikh Mubarak Ahmad for
Aḥmadiyya Gazette USA 46 September-October 2017
“Mubāhala,” i.e., prayer dual. He refused to accept it. I
said to myself, “O Boy! How can this great evangelist
known all over the world is not accepting the
“Mubāhala.” That particular thing perplexed me.
NAVEED AHMAD: The one who wrote the book
“Islam in Africa.” Let the viewers know what the
Mubāhala is.
ABDUL KARIM: Mubāhala is written in Quran.
Ḥaḍrat Muhammad (may peace and blessings of Allah
be upon him) invited Christian people from Niger for a
discussion. At one time they wanted to go out for a
service. The Prophet (may peace and blessings of Allah
be upon him) said, “You need not go out. You can have
your services right here in the mosque.” They did not
accept the Mubāhala. But you look at it from this
perspective. Mubāhala is that you pray to God and your
opponent prays to God for the decision in the matter.
NAVEED AHMAD: Between truthfulness of two
individuals.
ABDUL KARIM: Asking prayers from God.
NAVEED AHMAD: Essentially looking for a sign of
approval from God as two people have opposing ideas in
a religious matter.
ABDUL KARIM: Exactly sure. So that was in the
Holy Quran.
NAVEED AHMAD: So Sheikh Mubarak Ahmad
asked Billy Graham to engage in a Mubāhala to find out
the truth between Islam and Christianity.
ABDUL KARIM: Exactly right.
NAVEED AHMAD: Billy Graham openly refused.
ABDUL KARIM: Another book I read was “Islam
and Slavery.” It was written by brother (Mirza Bashir
Ahmad) of second Khalīfa. He was making a
comparison between slaves freed in US and slaves freed
at the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings
of Allah be upon him) i.e. slaves freed during Islamic
times and during the life of the Holy Prophet (may
peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). He made
sure that when slaves go elsewhere they are on their
own. They were given skills and their needs. They were
able to make their life. But in the Emancipation
Proclamation (of USA) they just freed the slaves. Look
when the animals are freed from the lockups, they just
take off and run. They have no direction. That happened
during the time of the Emancipation Proclamation
Process. It was mind blowing. It looks simple. In Islam,
there is equality among humans. Other civilizations
have races in people. This is a type of yoke. They do not
apply these principles.
NAVEED AHMAD: This is very important point
because Islam is still considered among orientalists’
scholars to be one of the religions that allow slavery. 1)
People inherited slaves. 2) They were not breed based
on physical characteristics or strength when they were
given excuse to free slaves. The difference was the
quality. Other issue was that it was an intrinsic part of
the economy, slave ownership and slave labor. If you
had given them emancipation, that is how you are
expounding rights now, no mechanism to contribute to
the society and uphold their own living standards.
ABDUL KARIM: The economy would have
collapsed. That is the whole idea. The Holy Quran
speaks of freedom of the slaves. But it is not like a
stroke of pen. The people who are freed make his or her
living.
NAVEED AHMAD: They have their personal
dignity. If you are freed slave and opt beggary, then its
not different from the slavery. In fact the slavery is
better that you are given provisions for your sustenance.
ABDUL KARIM: Exactly sure. So reading that book
“Islam and Slavery” had a profound effect on me. I
being Afro American and coming from that background
of people, consider myself being pure. It would be
worthwhile that gradually my race of people eventually
become self-sufficient or in other words be supporters
of society. This is how I look at it. I read many books. I
read book “The Philosophy of the teaching of Islam”
written by our founder of Aḥmadiyya Movement. I
began to read more of his books. I became a reader.
Then gradually I grabbed the whole of Islam. That was
1965-66. Afterwards I did not let it go. I am still holding
on to Islam.
NAVEED AHMAD: At that time, lots of things were
going on politically. There was civil right movement.
The Aḥmadiyya movement had a significant role in the
process by which the nation of Islam was created, the
Garvee movement; Noble Drew Ali had a movement. He
had circled seven Quran. All these things started
happening when the identity of black Americans and
Afro-Americans started changing. They started
absorbing different identities. The historians have
written about it extensively. Early in 1900, there was lot
of Afro Americans who decided to take on Muslim
names, grow their beards and change their dress. They
were actually treated differently by the racist dominant
society. They thought, they are Moors or they have
different civilization. Certain Afro Americans did not
know what is the religion. They just knew they would be
treated differently if they absorb some elements today.
Jazz music was very big at that time. There were some
very prominent jazz musicians who either started to flirt
Islam or accept Islam; John Coltrane and his wife were
among others.
ABDUL KARIM: I want to clear that. John Coltrane
never accepted Islam or Aḥmadiyyat but Suleiman Saud
was an Ahmadi Muslim, a black drummer who started
the Messenger. There were others like Talib Dawud and
Aḥmadiyya Gazette USA 47 September-October 2017
Sahib Shihab. I met our missionary last night. He
remembered Sahib Shahab. He was there in Europe.
Then there were Ahmad Jamal and Yusef Lateef. There
were many who embraced Islam because of the
environment they were in. Some stayed and some
didn’t. Yusef was one who stayed and progressed. I am
speaking about two who stayed. Dissical Isabel was once
Ahmadi Muslim.
NAVEED AHMAD: He also flirted with Baha’ism.
ABDUL KARIM: Exactly right. Also, Kokastatin the
wife of Talib Dawud deserted. I was right there during
that time. Lot of these musicians performed. They were
considered non-conformists. That was the whole deal.
So, I began to grow my beard and began to wear
different type of clothes to be distinguished from rest of
the people. Afterwards Islam has such an effect on
individuals. Islam gives individuality.
NAVEED AHMAD: That is a misconception about
Islam. Lot of people think that Islam mandates
conformism but that isn’t. It is unfortunate that certain
pockets of Muslims you know certain Sunni and Shia
dress exactly the same way. They look exactly the same.
It is more like a capitalistic than a communist society.
In communistic society they raise their head above to
look different. Islam is all about collectivity. It allows
individuals to express in a very unique way, the way that
they feel comfortable.
Tell us more about the Islamic influence on the
culture and jazz music. The jazz musicians read more
about Islam and adapted some of the Islamic trades.
They learnt about these things. They started changing
the way they communicated. They changed the music a
bit and it became very attractive thing. They were like
the ambassadors of Islam.
ABDUL KARIM: I think what people should do. The
late brothers Rashid Ahmad two years ago, before he
passed away, Nasir Islam sat with him and had a book
out. The name of the book is “Perseverance.” If you
want to look at me as an Afro-American, you should
also look into Afro-American experience. When you
read the book from the beginning, he explains how
Lewis grew up in Afro-American atmosphere influenced
by him. Islabel was an individual who was influenced by
his father. Islam teaches that each individual can have
his own individuality. We have one thing in common.
We must subsist in a system that God has made. We all
can share things together. We are dependent on each
other. If you don’t have that reality as a Muslim, you
may select to wear like this or wear like that and eat that
type of food etc. Naturally we know Muslims don’t eat
pork.
NAVEED AHMAD: Maybe we have to come to the
mosque on camel that is what the Holy Prophet (may
peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) did.
ABDUL KARIM: This individuality does mean that
you actually don’t conform to the system that God has
established. Everybody shares in that. To be a complete
human being you should be able to adapt. You don’t go
against that because here you are going against a
natural system that has been put in place. So, if you
subsist or in other words hold the individual, you can
have your individuality. But you should be more or less
part of the society.
NAVEED AHMAD: What was the effect on Islam of
this culture and music?
ABDUL KARIM: When you read the Holy Quran,
you read in a melodious manner.
NAVEED AHMAD: It is rhythmic.
ABDUL KARIM: You know, someone adapted this
not because of that but the words are so beautiful. In
other words it touched the heart. One point about late
Muhammad Sadiq, when he accepted Islam, he never
looked back. He looked up some of the people that grew
playing music. They became beggars on the streets. He
said, “ I won’t be that.” He gave up the music and
accepted Islam. He was able to save himself. So that is
how it affected some of the musicians. Some of the
musicians played music for a short time. But one thing
if you accept Islam, then adopts all values Islam offers,
and then you don’t give up. The man is weak and
sometimes does things that he should have not done.
NAVEED AHMAD: In the modern age, there is also
an identity issue. Lot of people has understood that it
seems the West has war with Islam even though
obviously there is a nuance to that. Some of the Muslim
youth not only outside but also inside US specially look
at wars happening against Islam. Obviously Muslim
world need to undergo changes because they have not
observed lot of the benefits of the modern worlds. There
is story that when the Saudis first found out about
telephone, they thought it was a creation of devil. What
happened until somebody have the foresight of the issue
to do the Adhān in the phone and show the mechanism
that it can be used for good or bad purposes. You can
hunt a deer with a rifle or you can kill an innocent
human with it. So, it is just a mean. Muslims have been
lagging behind in adopting science and technology.
ABDUL KARIM: They used to be the leaders in
science and technology.
NAVEED AHMAD: That is right. It was under Lucia
in Spain. Mauritius emperor built it. That was a very
pluralistic society ahead of Europe. They had running
wars. Christians and Muslims used to live in peace for
most part in that era. There was lot of benefits of giving
knowledge under Islamic emperor. That is why lot of
people gravitated. There was lot of books on every
subject. Lot of Jews and Muslims were removed from
the area. Some of the Jews became Christians. Ever
Aḥmadiyya Gazette USA 48 September-October 2017
since in lot of ways it had been a deterioration process.
ABDUL KARIM: I like to say about this. When you
talk about Islam, you talk about from very beginning of
the religion 6,000 years ago from Prophet Adam. Man
has progressed in many ways. You talk about the Bible.
During the time of Adam, Bible was at very elementary
stage. As the man began to grow, it began to evolve. He
learnt in many ways about the world. We as an Ahmadi
Muslim definitely believe in prophecies. We believe in
Prophets to come that was prophesized by other
Prophets. Usually when a Prophet appears on the face of
the earth regardless where is he from, he is always going
to be rejected.
NAVEED AHMAD: It is in Holy Quran that they are
not only rejected but also marked.
ABDUL KARIM: When Islam came on the scene,
the man had evolved. He was capable of receiving at
that time one teaching that would be suitable for all
men. We as an Ahmadi Muslims accepted what was
prophesized and what was to come. We talk about
Jesus. The Jews knew that he is going to come. When
he came, very few accepted him. So even today Jews
have not accepted Jesus on the ground that he was not
the one who was to come. In prophecy or the prophecy
being fulfilled and in the interpretations of prophecy,
you have to realize that there are metaphors to
understand. They missed that. Today, we believe that
The Holy Prophet Muhammad (may peace and
blessings of Allah be upon him) prophesized coming of
Mahdi. The Jews are waiting for Jesus and Muslims are
waiting for Mahdi to come. In the latter days, he said,
“When the Messiah shall come, they should act like the
Jews. When the Messiah came, people shall act like the
Jews. Jews were broken into 72 parts. The Islam is also
broken into 73 parts. Only one would be on right track.
When the Jesus came, all these 72 sects were there.
There were only two tribes in Palestine and others had
been migrated or had been sold to slavery.
NAVEED AHMAD: There were two tribes Judah
and Benjamin, which remained.
ABDUL KARIM: For argument sake, if one of these
tribes was correct, then there was no need of Jesus to
come. The same is true for Islam. If the Muslims had
not gone astray, there was no need for anyone to come
to correct Muslims. Then the Messiah would never have
appeared. But they had gone astray and Mahdi
appeared to correct them. They also acted like other
people and rejected him. The Mahdi was to come and
was one of the 73 sects of Muslims. There is a hadith
that the reinstitution of Khilāfat would be based on
precept of the Prophethood. We also believe that the
second manifestation of Khilāfat have taken place. We
justified on the ground that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad
claimed to be a Nabi. That was the prophecy of Hazrat
Muhammad (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon
him) otherwise he could have not claimed. The Khilāfat
has fulfilled two purposes. To reinstate Islam. To
reinstitute the institution of Khilāfat.
This is what our belief is. This is where we stand.
We are here to discuss it openly with others. It is up to
them to accept or reject Mahdi.
NAVEED AHMAD: That is correct. This is one of
the differences between Aḥmadiyya Muslim views about
all other sects. People look at Shiaism and Sunnism as a
monolithic meaning that they think they have one
leader and one ideology. They have not changed
essentially. They have the majority and adherence of
Islam between these two groups. You can find on
scrutiny that there are 73 sects and between Sunni and
Shia Islam there is a third sect. They are subdivided in
sub sects and so on. They do not have one leader. Shias
are a bit more organized. They have certain individual
scholars and certain Ayatollahs. But for the Sunnis they
are adamant against us. They have no leadership what
so ever. They have no leader for a very long time.
ABDUL KARIM: Sure. There lies a difference
between Shiites and Sunnis. They have not one head
that may speak for the entire Muslim world.
NAVEED AHMAD: They do not have one leader in
any country or they even don’t have a leader in one city.
They have leaders all over the place. In Quran, it is
written to hold fast to one rope of Allah. The rope of
Allah is Khilāfat or successor ship and it comes after the
Prophet. The community shall be on the right track
after accepting the Prophet.
ABDUL KARIM: One thing I like to say here. Allah
has shown us in His creation that you cannot have 2-3
heads. The Christians talk about trinity father, son and
Holy Spirit. The question is, are they equal? They say
that they are equal. Then there is no need to have three.
Let us see they are three and have equal powers. One
likes to do certain thing and have the power to do so
whereas other likes to do something different. That
means there would be conflict. So, God has shown it to
His creation the oneness. We have one Sun, one moon,
country that has one President, and city has one Mayer.
That is how God has established His oneness. No one is
interfering in His creation for seen or unseen. There is
no entity that shares in His creation. This is one thing
that man should understand.
NAVEED AHMAD: The oneness of God leads to
oneness of creation; oneness of humanity, which leads
to oneness of Islam. All these sub-divisions are basically
mechanism by which we harm each other, divide and
create conflict.
ABDUL KARIM: Sure
NAVEED AHMAD: I was saying that Aḥmadiyyat
Aḥmadiyya Gazette USA 49 September-October 2017
has different views. We are globally united. Now we
have 5th caliph of the Aḥmadiyya Movement. We have
had a history of over hundred years of science and
technological progress. We have done as a community
translation of the Holy Quran in over 70 languages,
which has never been done by any other community
before. This is an Islamic test. They always say that
Aḥmadiyya Movement is supported by the British, the
Jews, Israel and by Free Masonry. They do not want to
show beauty of the Quran to the world. What we have
done is an Islamic activity. We have done lot of
humanitarian work. We have established lot of schools
and hospitals especially in Latin America and Africa. We
entered Spain where there was a ban to built a mosque
for over 700+ years. There was no mosque in that area
when the ban was lifted in seventies or eighties.
Aḥmadiyya Movement was for the first one to establish
a new mosque in Spain.
ABDUL KARIM: They welcomed us there.
NAVEED AHMAD: During the inauguration fourth
caliph of Aḥmadiyya Movement Ḥaḍrat Mirza Tāhir
Ahmad had Prof. Abdus Salam, a noble laureate in
Nuclear Physics on his one side and on other side
Chaudhry Muhammad Zafrulla Khan who had a
position in United Nations, World Bank and
International Court of Justice. Intellectual
predominance of Islam, the seeds of that was
reestablished by Aḥmadiyya Movement, which has
already established dominance within the Islamic
World. These were the two who were largely recognized
by the ethicist world. They were the accomplished
individuals. It was a symbolic moment. We were not
only first to create a new mosque in Spain but also had a
desire to grow in the intellectualism battleground.
There was lot of key distinctive features of Ahmadiyya
Islam in early 1900. They had Quran published along
with other discourses in terms of debating with
Christians because that was a Christian country at that
time. We already created intellectual background. We
developed proper weaponry to deal with all other
religions in terms of intellectual, logical, rational and
also prophetic because we have the prophecies in the
Bible. We don’t have to go to Quran to establish the
truth of Islam. According to Bible, Islam shall be the
ultimate truth. These are thing, which people forgot.
The people who are not necessarily Muslims, the one
who have not much involvement with the religion or
interreligious discussions think that Islam is a separate
religion. The Islam looks itself the summit of religious
evaluation. All the other religions like Confucianism,
Buddhism, Taoism and Zoroasterism we believe were
truly Islam.
ABDUL KARIM: They all came from God and
established oneness of God.
NAVEED AHMAD: Islam means peace through
submission to the world of God.
ABDUL KARIM: I like to say about one of the
biggest problems of the world. They don’t want to stand
what our teachings are. We have an Islam what they call
fapolas. First of all, we believe in God.
NAVEED AHMAD: Oneness of God.
ABDUL KARIM: He is the sole Creator and
Sustainer of the Heavens and the Earth. Then we
believe in prayers. If we have a problem, although we
pray every day, the person has something to pray for
between the two prayers. We also believe that we should
also share the bounties of God, i.e., we call it Zakat. We
should share it for less fortunate people. We do what the
Prophet of God has always done, i.e., Fast. We fast in
the month of Ramaḍān. The purpose of fast is to be
closer to God. Last pillar of Islam is to make it to Hajj,
go there at least once in your lifetime. It is for those who
can afford. There you see people from all background
and talk about and share things, which benefit all of us.
NAVEED AHMAD: It reflects oneness of humanity.
It experiences oneness. In fact, it is one thing that lead
Malcolm away from the nation of Islam because once he
went there and realized that people are not devils. The
color and skin are irrelevant in Islam. Here you have
brotherhood that spans all the colors from the darkest
to the lightest. That is one thing Islam has to offer the
world. What happens is that these are all relativistic
terms and situations where Islam proposes an absolute
justice, a universal justice. Islam encourages individual
Muslim to seek at the very least justice and giving
without expectation. If you are able to do that it is
incumbent upon you to seek next level “Ita’izil-Qurba
اِیتَاء ذِی القرب ی .” Treat as if you are one another’s brother
sister, a very close-knit family. اِیتَاء ذِی القرب ی
ABDUL KARIM: Another thing I like to say. I have a
thought pattern and I say people don’t know what the
teachings of Islam are. We have an Islam with six
articles of faith.
1. We believe in God. There is non-worthy of
worship but the Creator Allah.
2. We also believe that the Holy Prophet
Muhammad (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon
him) was His Prophet. We do believe in all other
prophets. The Holy Prophet Muhammad (may peace
and blessings of Allah be upon him) said that 1,24000
Prophets appeared on the face of the earth. Some we
know and others we don’t know. We can only identify
24 Prophets as mentioned in the Holy Quran.
3. We believe in His books. The books sent down on
these Prophets in purity are accepted. The man
interrupted the purity of these teachings. Different
things started to entertain, so on and so forth.
Aḥmadiyya Gazette USA 50 September-October 2017
4. Then we believe in angels. We believe that
Gabriel is the major angel. He is the one that was sent
on Prophets. He brings the messages of God to the
Prophets. I like to say more about angels. There are laws
in operation in this universe that are controlled by
angels. Let me give an example. If a person puts his
hands on fire, what happens? He is going to be burnt.
His hand shall burn according to nature’s law. So, we
look at all other laws. Everything has its own individual
law.
NAVEED AHMAD: It is very important. The
Muslims especially in Aḥmadiyya Movement don’t
believe in angels with fairies that fly around. The angels
could be another world to enforce natural laws that God
created and are in operation in the universe.
ABDUL KARIM: 5. We believe in the Heavens and
the Hell. We like all other peoples who are religious in
nature believe in the Heavens. It is prerogative of God
to determine whether one is going to the Heaven or the
Hell. We also believe that there is a Hell. We do not
believe that Hell is eternal. You look at it as a hospital. If
you have an ailment, what you do. You go to the
hospital and get cured. Doctor gets you cured. Then you
come back as cured person and resume activities in the
society. There is a saying of the Holy Prophet
Muhammad (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon
him) that one day the gates of the Hell will be locked.
Nobody would be there, why? Because they have been
purified. Now you are capable of going to the Heavens.
6. We believe in predestination. I like to give it in
this sense. The predestination is a type that you are
going to reap what you sow. I like to give an example of
Prophet Noah. God sent Prophet Noah to preach to the
people. They rejected him. He said, “If you do not
accept me, I am going to punish you.” He preached and
the time passed. They refused to accept him. Then God
said, “Enough is enough.” The Prophet Noah said,
“Those who shall come in my ark shall be saved and
others shall be drowned.” Even his son was drowned as
a result of not coming to the ark.
Let us take another scenario. Look at the people
when they began to question Jesus, “O Master, O
Master show us sign.” What he said? Only one sign is
given just as Jonah was in the belly of whale for 3 days
and 3 nights. So, shall the man of the earth be alive in
the belly of earth for 3 days and 3 nights. It was similar
to that sign. Jonah remained alive in the belly of whale
for 3 days and 3 nights and came out alive. Jesus went
in the tomb of Joseph (of Arimathea), a burial place,
alive and came out alive. It can be proved from the
Bible. Nicodemus (a physician by profession) saw blood
gushing from the wounds when the soldier had pierced
Jesus body. It means Jesus was not dead.
NAVEED AHMAD: They put two different types of
balms one for the dead and other to heal the wounds of
live body.
ABDUL KARIM: Jesus escaped from there and
went on to meet his disciples. In Christian society, they
talk about Thomas. Thomas did not believe that it was
he. So, what he said, “Look at my hand? They pierce my
hand on the cross. I am not a ghost. I am hungry. They
gave him fish and honeycomb.
So, the people of Noah continued to reject him. The
people of Jonah when he actually came back after he
was kicked out by the whale, he went to his people and
preached them. They accepted him. There are two
things i.e. you reap what you sow. If you don’t accept
the things, the consequences will be as such. We believe
in predestination. We say to people, “Look, we haven’t
gone to any Heaven. Let us tell you. We should look at
the life you live in. How you can relate to afterlife? If I
continue to be otherwise I am going to have bad
consequences. But if I don’t, let us face it, good
consequences will come about. The predestination is the
6th article. The Prophets of God had been telling us
about the consequences of good or bad deeds.
NAVEED AHMAD: In the modern context if you
look at today, we see the world very much divided. What
can Islam offer them?
What is Aḥmadiyyat within Islam offers the diverse
people of the world. The diverse interests there allow
them to express their individuality within the cohesive
and spirituality enhancing form. So, whatever the
activities they are engaged in their personal lives or
creative abilities can be utilized to benefit all. Basically,
how we can unite the human families. That is what
Islam and Aḥmadiyyat offers to bring people under one
banner and under one roof.
ABDUL KARIM: Our Khalīfa says every day and on
daily basis that the world is on the brink of destruction
if man does not do absolute justice. Its outcome is going
to be all destruction and we are heading towards that
direction. From time to time our Khalīfa is speaking to
the heads of states, scholars, religious people, all types
of other people. He is talking them exactly where the
world is today and where we stand in the world today. If
we do not amend our ways, we are doomed to
destruction. We say there is no compulsion in religion.
If you continue in the direction, you are going; you are
on the path of destruction. If you change your course,
we say, you have a chance. The human being is given a
choice. He can accept or he can reject. Everyone has the
choice. You can believe or disbelieve. So this is the
nutshell.
NAVEED AHMAD: Accept to your benefit or reject
to the determinant of yourself.
ABDUL KARIM: If the man doesn’t change his
ways, he is on the course of destruction.
Aḥmadiyya Gazette USA 51 September-October 2017
NAVEED AHMAD: Now one of the things the
people may allege that the religions say the same thing.
The Christians are saying the same thing or Jews are
saying the same thing i.e. Peace, about love and brother
hood and unity. Can you give us more detail about what
Ahmadiyya Movement is doing to create peace among
the society, outside the community meaning those who
are not yet Ahmadi Muslims? What we are doing in
Latin America, Africa or here in United States or where
there is a disaster? Give us some detail and also
specifically here in Chicago. We recently purchased a
very large property. It was a school that was abandoned
on south side of Chicago 44th street. Tell us what plans
we have for that and what we are doing on global scale
as relate to aiding and helping humanity.
ABDUL KARIM: Humanity is humanity. We do not
discriminate between white, black, blue, red and brown
whoever they might be. We do not discriminate whether
a person is Christian, Jew or having other type of
religion. We don’t care about that. It is not our concern.
Our concern is to give help to needy regardless who you
are. You alluded having a school south of Chicago on
44th streets. We have opened a public park for all people
to come.
NAVEED AHMAD: What kind of services we are
having?
ABDUL KARIM: The service we shall be having in
near future is soup kitchen for hungry. We shall
establish a medical center there for screening people.
We want to establish some educational program for
people there. Hopefully this year we shall be able to
provide people in the neighborhood tax-free things. We
have expectations that whatever the need is as long as it
doesn’t conflict with our teachings, right or wrong, we
shall provide. We reckon more to come. I like to say
Humanity First shall also be there. Now whenever there
is a disaster throughout the world, US and in other parts
of the world, we are there to serve people. As a matter of
fact when the floods came in Pakistan, the Humanity
First was there.
NAVEED AHMAD: In many areas, they were the
first.
ABDUL KARIM: We Aḥmadīs were there. Actually,
these are the people who annihilated us in Pakistan. We
never say: “No”. We are ready to serve.
NAVEED AHMAD: They exterminate us on the
basis that we are not Muslims. We pretend to be
Muslims.
ABDUL KARIM: We have no concern about that
whether we are Muslims or not. We are there to serve
humanity. That is what the Ahmadiyya Muslims have to
offer to the world. We are in 207 countries now. The
prophecy that Islam, i.e., Aḥmadiyyat would be spread
to the four corners of the earth, has happened. The
prophecy during the time of Ḥaḍrat Mirza Ghulam
Ahmad, the founder of Ahmadiyya Muslims Community
was fulfilled correctly. He said that he is from God. God
communicated to him. God spoke to him that His
message shall spread to the four corners of earth. We
have actually accomplished that so far.
NAVEED AHMAD: That is right. I appreciate your
coming to the show today. We shall definitely invite you
again in the future. There were lots of insights gained
today. I hope viewers gained a lot. If you are local and
are in Chicago, please visit us at our current mosque.
The address is: 4448 South Wabash Ave, Chicago, IL
60653.
We also have a community center called Sadiq
Community Center. We have a soup kitchen. We shall
be establishing clothing drives. We are going to have a
place for mentor ship. Some of the individuals from our
community who have excelled in certain areas of life
shall be able to give their wisdom, their experiences and
expertise to the younger kids to take advantage of. We
are also going to create a library there. You will be able
to get access to variety of different books on many
different subjects. Basically, it is going to be very useful
place to come in Bronxville Chicago. Hopefully we shall
bring people from the neighborhood. It seems like
starting to happen. We shall have a bit outside
investment coming in the area and some bigger chain
grocery stores. We are going to have a community
center within a block of the historic mosque, the first
missionary mosque in US in 1920 when we had a
missionary Mufti Muhammad Sadiq who came to the
United States and converted over 700 people. I believe
in very short period of time i.e. two years. They were
from all walks of life. They were white Americans. They
were black Americans. They were individuals from
other backgrounds as well. They were representatives
from the whole community.
Anybody interested, anybody looking for more
information, can contact us at Aḥmadiyya Community
in south side of Chicago. We look forward to engaging
you and work with you for better world. Thank you very
much brother Abdul Karim again. I like to have you at
some point again on the show. If you have any closing
thought, please tell us.
ABDUL KARIM: Thanks for having me. You can
contact and actually observe Ahmadiyya Muslim
community on MTA. It is http://www.mta.tv. You can also see
our live broadcast there. You can also observe us at
Alislam.org. So, either you can come directly to the
mosque to enquire about us at what times we have
services. We have service every Friday at 1 O clock. We
also have programs on weekends. It is Saturdays
through Sundays. All you have to do look at the
telephone directory and we are there. Our telephone
Aḥmadiyya Gazette USA 52 September-October 2017
numbers are there. Our address is there. We are not
hard to find. So, I like to thank Mr. Naveed Ahmad for
inviting me here today. Hopefully I shall be able to
come again and share with you whatever information I
have.
NAVEED AHMAD: Thank you very much.
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Links and Related Essay’s
Who is Amatus Sami-Karim? – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
Sep_Oct2017-EnglishSection.pdf (ahmadiyyagazette.us)
Qasim Rashid is ripped to pieces by another Ahmadi, Naveed Khanverse – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
When was the first Ahmadiyya temple acquired in the USA? – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
Was Sahib Shihab a Qadiani-Ahmadi? – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
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#ahmadiyya #ahmadiyyafactcheckblog #messiahhascome #ahmadiyyat #trueislam #ahmadianswers #mirzaghulamahmad #qadiani #qadianism
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