Intro
In 2026 (Mar-29), Bro Imtiaz debated Azim Saifi on 7:35 of the Quran (7:36 in the Kadiani Koran). In this debate, Azim Saifi played dumb and stupid the whole time, he pretended like he didn’t know the Islamic position on 7:35 and dragged this conversation accordingly.
In one clip, Azim Saifi admitted that there is NO verse of the Quran which supports the argument of MGA in “Eik Ghalti Ka Izala” (See page 4) that the window of “Sirat e Siddique” will open for one person and that is MGA, MGA also drinks from the same water, who wears the cloak (chadar) of Muhammad (saw) and then becomes Muhammad (Saw)(See the clip on TikTok and Twitter).
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https://www.youtube.com/live/fRS2UwIisEE?si=yuiqmzmldNM7bamk
–At 6:29, Azim Saifi presents 7:35 of the Quran (7:36 in the Kadiani Koran), in his introductory statement.
–At 8:40, Bro Imtiaz asked Azim Saifi to clarify as to what he disagrees on. Bro Imtiaz says that from Adam (as) to Muhammad (Saw), all prophets either brought a law (Tashree Nabi)(like Musa [as], or followed a law (ghair tashree nabi), like Yahya (as) and Zachariah (as). Bro Imtiaz says that Both of these prophets were closed off, it will never open again, if it does, than Khatm-e-Nubuwwat will break. Bro Imtiaz specifically asked Azim Saifi as to which part of this statement that he disagrees with.
–At 11:34, Azim Saifi starts and has some issues with his sound and time. Azim Saifi says that even Ahmadi’s believe that a non law bearing prophet (ghair tashree’e nabi) can not come! However, a non law bearing prophet (ghair tashree’e nabi) can come, as long as he is not “Brah-e-rast” (independent)., i.e., a non law bearing prophet (ghair tashree’e nabi) who became a prophet after following Muhammad (Saw). Azim Saifi denied “independent-prophets” (bra-e-rast only), whether they bring a law or not.
–At 13:00, Bro Imtiaz says that they should keep it at 2 mins each. Bro Imtiaz says that it is important to find the point of dispute. Bro Imtiaz points out how Azim Saifi didn’t address any of his questions in the 1st round. Bro Imtiaz asks Azim Saifi if he agrees that from Adam (as) to Muhammad (Saw) all prophets were “independent-prophets” (bra-e-rast only), whether they bring a law or not. Thereafter, Allah closed this system of “independent-prophets” (bra-e-rast only), whether they bring a law or not. Thus, after Muhammad (saw), if there are any prophets which are “independent-prophets” (bra-e-rast only), whether they bring a law or not, they will break the seal of prophethood. Bro Imtiaz says that he gave 4 points and Azim Saifi needs to cooperate and answer them.
–At 15:20, Azim Saifi starts, Saifi again denies the “bra-e-rast prophets” (aka “independent-prophets”). Azim Saifi says that even after Muhammad (Saw), per Ahmadiyya, if anyone claims to be a “bra-e-rast prophet” (aka “independent-prophet”), then Ahmadiyya will reject him. Saifi says however, if someone claims to be a prophet after following Muhammad (saw), then Ahmadi’s will investigate further.
–At 16:41, Bro Imtiaz starts speaking, Bro Imtiaz asks Azim Saifi about the 4 points:
1–Allah would only choose “Brahe-rast prophets” (Independent Prophets) from Adam (as) to Muhammad (saw).
2–Of the “Brahe-rast prophets” (Independent Prophets) from Adam (as) to Muhammad (saw), some were law bearing (tashree) and some were non-law bearing (ghair tashree).
3–until the day of judgement, this type of prophethood has totally ended.
4–Bro Imtiaz will reveal this shortly.
–At 17:32, Bro Imtiaz starts speaking again. Bro Imtiaz says the difference between Islam and Qadianism is on this 4th point and has to do with MGA claiming to be the 2nd coming of Muhammad (saw) as his own prophethood. Bro Imtiaz reiterates that even Ahmadi’s believe that “Brahe-rast prophets” (Independent Prophets) from Adam (as) to Muhammad (saw), some were law bearing (tashree) and some were non-law bearing (ghair tashree) have ALL ended. Bro Imtiaz explains how there isn’t any other type of prophethood in human existence. Bro Imtiaz says that Azim Saifi must answer to all of this.
—19:17, Azim Saifi starts talking. Azim Saifi says that he even agrees that law-bearing prophethood has ended, no doubt. Azim Saifi requests that this topic be moved to side and the actual issues should be discussed now. Azim Saifi says that law-bearing prophets were ended up 33:40, however, via 7:35 (7:36 in the Kadiani Koran), one type of prophethood is continued.
—20:44, Bro Imtiaz starts talking. Bro Imtiaz explains what “ghair” means and how the “ghair” of Muhammad (Saw) is his opposite and can never be “Ain”. MGA said a “ghair” breaks the seal of prophethood. There was also a “fazul” (worthless) thing that Azim Saifi had argued about, Bro Imtiaz promised to show how Azim Saifi had said the same.
—22:37, Azin Saifi quoted Ahmad Rida Khan and alleged that he said that he also believed in the 2nd coming of Muhammad (saw) in some weird way. He also quoted Pir Mehr Ali Shah. Azim Saifi alleges that this was the meaning of “Ghair”.
—24:15, Bro Imtiaz starts, again, Bro Imtiaz explains how MGA called anyone who doesn’t do exactly like Muhammad (saw) in work and status (kaam, makaam and naam) is a “ghair”. Bro Imtiaz asked about the status of Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra).
—26:06, Azim Saifi starts talking, Saifi says that he feels like this discussion is going nowhere and he wants Bro Imtiaz to talk about that verse of the Quran. Azim Saifi asked for the reference for if someone doesn’t bring the (kaam, makaam and naam) of Muhammad (Saw), then they are his “ghair”. Azim Saifi quoted Ahmad Rida Khan again.
—28:23, Bro Imtiaz starts, he says that he hasn’t presented any scan yet, we are simply talking. Bro Imtiaz points out Azim Saifi agreed that the 2nd coming of Muhammad (saw) means that someone will take the name (naam) of Muhammad (Saw)(naozobillah). Bro Imtiaz re-explains, if someone doesn’t take the name of Muhammad (Saw), via the 2nd coming of Muhammad (saw), he is a ghair. And must stand foot by foot, he is ghair. These 4 things must be present or a person is a ghair. Bro Imtiaz then asked about the status of Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra), are they ghair?
—31:00, Azim Saifi starts talking, he says that he is understanding how Bro Imtiaz is saying that if anyone doesn’t have the “naam, kaam and mukaam” of Muhammad (Saw), they are a ghair. Bro Imtiaz clarifies in the affirmative. Azim Saifi agrees that ANY Muslim can claim to be Muhammad (saw) in “naam, kaam and mukaam” (name, work and status). At the end, Azim Saifi says that Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) were perfect followers, however, Allah chooses!
—33:20, Bro Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz explains how Umar (Ra) was a “kamal” follower and drank from the same water and was like a prophet, Allah spoke to him like a prophet. Which qualities were missing? Why wasn’t Umar (ra) able to achieve prophethood. Bro Imtiaz clarifies that “naam” (name) means getting the name of “Muhammad and Ahmad”. They must also stand foot by foot with Muhammad (Saw).
—35:52, Azim Saifi starts, he says that Umar (Ra) had all the qualities of Muhammad (Saw). However, Saifi says there was a small difference. Saifi says that they had all the same qualities, however, they weren’t able to become a prophet. Saifi says that Allah never called Umar (ra) as Muhammad (saw) and Ahmad (as). Did they ever get the verse of 48:22 (Muhammad Rasool ullah) revealed onto themselves? Saifi says that they didn’t get the naam (name). Saifi says that Muhammad (saw) said to never call him better than Yunus (as).
—37:42, Bro Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz reminds Saifi that he is not talking about Khilafat, he is talking about Nubuwwat. Bro Imtiaz explains how MGA called himself a dog. Bro Imtiaz responds to Azim Saifi’s questions, did Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) get the name “Muhammad and Ahmad” from heaven? Bro Imtiaz explains how this entire concept doesn’t exist in Islam. Bro Imtiaz tells Azim Saif that he needs to show the verse from the Quran wherein this concept is given? How could these people claim as such when the entire concept doesn’t exist. Give the verse! It is also against brainpower.
—39:51, Azim Saifi starts, he argues again that why did Muhammad (Saw) say that he was not better than Yunus (as)? Wasn’t he? Then, why didn’t he say it? Azim Saifi argues that it doesn’t have to be in the Quran in a weird way. Azim Saifi said that it was a collection of verses of the Quran which infer that someone can become the 2nd coming of Muhammad (saw).
—42:00, Bro Imtiaz starts, Bro Imtiaz asked for the context of the statement by Muhammad (Saw), i.e., that Muhammad (Saw) didn’t want to hear that he was better than Yunus (as). Bro Imtiaz says he wants to hear the verses of the Quran, which infer that from the heavens someone gets the name of Muhammad and Ahmad, the makaan of Muhammad Rasool (48:22), Jameee safat, and standing foot by foot, Bro Imtiaz wants the ref. Bro Imtiaz tells Azim Saifi to stop talking about dogs, that is not nice. 4 things.
—44:20, Azim Saifi starts, he says that via 7:35, someone gets the name of Muhammad and Ahmad, the makaan of Muhammad Rasool (48:22), Jameee safat, and standing foot by foot, 4 things.
—46:35, Bro Imtiaz starts, he explains how Azim Saifi purposely didn’t connect these 4 things to 7:35. Imtiaz wants clarification on this.
—48:55, Azim Saifi starts, he says that he can answer any way he wants, i.e., he doesn’t have to answer anything.
—50:46, Bro Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz says that today, Azim Saifi will not get to do as he wants, he must answer! Bro Imtiaz points out how Ahmadi’s use their own opinions and whims to make MGA a prophet. Bro Imtiaz reminds Azim Saifi that he must speak from “Quttay Dalala” verses. Bro Imtiaz points out how in terms of 3:55, Qadiani’s want to follow a specific order and get made when Muslims argue that this verse is out of sequence. However, when it is their turn, Ahmadi’s don’t do it.
—52:35, Azim Saifi starts, he says that Bro Imtiaz has been avoiding 7:35 for one hour. Azim Saifi says that he doesn’t have to answer in any order. Azim Saifi connected the makaan of Muhammad Rasool (48:22) to 7:35.
—54:22, Bro Imtiaz starts, he explains how if Azim Saifi is defending the prophethood of MGA, he must follow the Islamic rules and not make things up. He must stick to Kitab or Sunnah. And he must use verses which are “Quttay Dalala”. Bro Imtiaz asks, does name come before sifaat? Bro Imtiaz says that Azim Saifi must prove the “makaam of Muhammad”.
—56:28, Azim Saifi starts, in terms of tarteeb, he argues that first comes sifaat (power), then comes the naam (name). Saifi argues that becoming the 2nd coming of Muhammad (saw) is only in power (sift).
—58:57, Bro Imtiaz starts, Azim Saifi takes a quick break. Bro Imtiaz reminds Azim Saifi that he still needs to point out how MGA fulfilled the 4 things, the name of Muhammad and Ahmad, the makaan of Muhammad Rasool (48:22), Jameee safat, and standing foot by foot. Azim Saifi also has to prove that if a person can become the 2nd coming of Muhammad (Saw), they must not be any different from Muhammad (saw). Bro Imtiaz tells Azim Saifi that he must present “Qutteya sabhot” (clear cut evidence). Again, Bro Imtiaz wants Azim Saifi to connect the 4 things to verses of the Quran. Bro Imtiaz says that he is ready to give 5 mins to Saifi for an answer. Saifi refused.
—1:01:40, Azim Saifi starts talking, again, Saifi argues that someone must get the power (sift) first. He talks about Sunnah being zunny.
—1:03:25, Bro Imtiaz starts, Azim Saifi made a rule, before you respond and give refs, someone must deny a topic. Bro Imtiaz says that in Ahmadiyya, for someone to claim prophethood, they must have these 4 things in them, i.e., being exactly like Muhammad (saw). If anyone has “Ghair” in them, it won’t work, many verses of the Quran will be rejected. This is via ‘Eik Ghalti Ka Izala”. And…if the entire ummah, there will be only 1 prophet as such, this is the 5th thing.
—1:05:30, Azim Saifi starts, Saifi says something strange about getting and giving references. Saifi quotes 7:35 and says this is where MGA got the Sift (power).
—1:07:24, Bro Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz explains how prophethood has totally ended. Ahmadi’s and Sunni’s agree on this.
—1:10:04, Azim Saifi starts, Saifi says that the 5 things that Bro Imtiaz is asking him to prove via the Quran are not even Ahmadiyya beliefs. Azim Saifi connects 7:35 with the sift of Rasul (power of the Messenger). Saifi complains about not getting an answer. Saifi mentions people wearing the pajama of their little brother.
—1:12:10, Bro Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz explains how Saifi has abandoned his own position in this debate.
—1:14:11, Azim Saifi says that he doesn’t have 1 verse which answers these 5 things, he has many. Saifi says there are many verses. Saifi says that he has explained 1, i.e., via 7:35, any person can the sift (power) of prophethood. Saifi says he wont answer the 5 things until Imtiaz responds to his claim that , via 7:35, any person can the sift (power) of prophethood.
—1:16:02, Bro Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz reminds Saifi that he is ready to give him 5 mins, stop stopping early. Imtiaz mentions the 5 things again and says OK, you answered 1, give the other 4. Imtiaz explains how he never asked Azim Saifi to prove the 5 things from 1 verse, this is a lie. Again, Imtiaz says that Saifi must show these 5 things in any claimant of prophethood after Muhammad (Saw). Imtiaz reminds Saifi that after he rejects these positions, then, Imtiaz will give the answer, however, we need that rejection (inkarree).
—1:17:57, Azim Saifi starts, Saifi says that the entire discussion has been stalled on the issue. Saifi says that Imtiaz says that there will only be ONE, this is a distractor. Saifo says he doesn’t want to talk about this distractor. He says the 4 or 5 things is mixed paste (kitcheree).
—1:19:50, Bro Imtiaz starts, again, Bro Imtiaz mentions the 5 things (requirements) which make someone a prophet per MGA. Bro Imtiaz mentions how MGA said after he dies, all good things (naykee and pakeezkee) will be finished (khatam), people who are born thereafter will be bad and Allah will end the world by ending these people.
—1:21:50, Saifi starts, Saifi accuses Imtiaz of avoiding the topic. Saifi argues that MGA said that a non-law bearing prophet can come. Saifi says that he disagrees on the 5th point, i.e., that only MGA would be called a prophet.
—1:23:40, Bro Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz challenges Azim Saifi to show the reference wherein MGA said that after him, a non-law-bearing (ghair tashree) prophet can come? Imtiaz explains how Saifi made this argument via the 5th point, i.e., that only MGA would be called a prophet. Imtiaz has denied the statement of Saifi, it is not true. Imtiaz explains how MGA gave a timeline of events after his death, and no additional prophet is mentioned. MGA said that he came in the 7000th year (7th millennium), MGA called the 6000 to 6999 era has the time of confusion (gumra), MGA then said that after him, only 3 generations naykee and pakeezkee will be finished (khatam). People will become bad, so bad, that Allah will end the world on them. Imtiaz says he will prove all of this to Saifi today and Saifi will admit to it!
—1:25:48, Saifi starts, Saifi keeps claiming that Imtiaz won’t engage on 7:35. Saifi says that MGA argued that every single Adam (as) will get 7000 years. There were many Adam’s (as) before us. Saifi argues that we don’t know what Adam (as) we are after. Saifi says that MGA said that the Ahmadiyya Khilafat will last 1000 years. Azim Saifi says “Khilafat-e-Haqqa”= nubuwwat and this will last until the Day of Judgement.
—1:27:19, Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz says that we are discussing the latest Adam (as), who appeared as MGA. Imtiaz reminds Saifi that he must show him that after the latest Adam (as)(aka MGA), where did he write that there would be additional law-bearing prophets. Imtiaz addresses the issue of why did Saifi say that “Khilafat-e-Haqqa”= nubuwwat and this will last until the Day of Judgement? Imtiaz won’t let this go. Imtiaz reminds Saifi of the famous hadith wherein it was stated that Bani Israel would have prophets, however, Muslims won’t, Muslims will have Khalifa’s instead.
—1:29:34, Azim Saifi starts, Saifo quotes Chashma Masihi, RK-20, page 388, wherein MGA says that in the future, no one will get “Nubuwwat ka kamal” (excellence of prophethood) without the stamp (mohr) of approval that he followed Muhammad (Saw) properly, i.e., you can only get prophethood in the future by following Muhammad (Saw). Saifi then quotes RK-19, page 213, this is “Review Mubahasa Batalvi-Chakralwi”. Saifi then also quotes 25:55 in terms of “Khilafat-e-Haqqa”, Saifi, says that this door is opened until the Day of Judgement.
—1:33:39, Bro Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz explains how MGA made a rule, a liar has contradictions in his writings. Mirza said no Kamal child will ever be born. Imtiaz repeats previous points, i.e., 1000 years left, 3 generations, the world will end on the worst people, they will be like animals. Again, we have a huge contradiction (tazaad). Imtiaz repeats the Ahmadiyya requirement for prophets after Muhammad (Saw). Would there be a 3rd coming of Muhammad (Saw)? Why is Saifi inferring this? MGA said the “mohr” of prophethood was only given to 1 person, per MGA.
—1:37:53, Saifi starts, Saifi complains about being misdirected from 7:35 to nonsensical matters. Saifi says that only Ahmadi’s can give their beliefs. Saifi says that MGA didn’t mean that the world would end after him, no there will be additional cycles of Adam (as).
—1:40:01, Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz explains how Ahmadi’s say we don’t know about the future. Imtiaz repeats the quote of MGA, wherein MGA said no good child would be born after him. Imtiaz says that based on the arguments of Saifi, MGA is a liar.
—1:41:56, Saifi starts, Saifi complains about being misdirected and not getting an answer for 7:35. Imtiaz jokingly says that he is getting the dogs out of the way today. Saifi says that there is no difference in their beliefs (Qadiani vs. Muslim). Saifi says the topic is not after MGA, will there be prophets, and that Imtiaz points out a contradiction. What is real issue between us?
—1:44:40, Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz explains the difference between Islam and Qadiani’s on prophethood. In Ahmadiyya, there are 2 Muhammad (Saw)’s, however, in Islam, there is only one.
—1:46:35, Azim Saifi starts, Saifi says via 7:35, one person can become a prophet after Muhammad (saw).
—1:48:30, Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz points out how Saifi is trying to change the main topic of discussion. Imtiaz says that he has explained that in Islam, there is only 1 Muhammad (SAW), whereas in Ahmadiyya, there are 2. Imtiaz says that he has proved that MGA is a liar! Imtiaz says that he proved a contradiction in the writings of MGA. Saifi has to remove this contradiction of MGA. Imtiaz reminds Saifi that Ahmadi’s believe that only a crazy person claims prophethood after MGA. Imtiaz explains how Ahmadi’s have pushed MGA through their barrier-wall of prophethood. However, Muslims don’t do this.
—1:50:38, Saifi starts, Saifi says that there is a way to push someone through the barrier wall. Saifi says that he tore down the wall. Why did 1 person do this? Saifi says come to the main topic.
—1:52:39, Imtiaz starts, he repeats his previous argument, Ahmadi’s believe in 2 Muhammad (Saw)’s, whereas Muslims only believe in 1. Imtiaz says that there is a huge contradiction, MGA said no good children after him, however, Saifi argues that a Nabi can come. Imtiaz asks for the procedure to become Muhammad (saw), where is it? Is it still valid? Ahmadi’s believe that without the “Tasdeeqee mohr” (stamp of attestation), any claimant of prophethood is a liar. Ahmadi’s believe that any prophet after MGA, who doesn’t come via a prophecy is a liar, Ahmadi’s say that there is only 1 prophecy about prophets after Muhammad (Saw), all others are liars. Imtiaz says its simply not possible in Ahmadiyya.
—1:54:39, Saifi starts, he complains that Imtiaz keeps repeating and discussing things off topic, which were not the topic on the thumbnail. Saifi says that the 2nd coming of Muhammad (saw) only happened since the door is open. Saifi says that he presented 7:35 to prove this. Saifi says that Imtiaz needs to refute his position on 7:35. At the end, Saifi complains and says lets come on to the topic.
—1:57:00, Bro Imtiaz talks to Saifi about extending the time of the discussion. They also talk about what the topic of discussion was supposed to be vs. what it turned into. Imtiaz explains the point of dispute, i.e., that MGA claims to be the 2nd coming of Muhammad (Saw). There are 2 Muhammad’s (saw) in Ahmadiyya and only 1 in Islam. Azim Saifi accuses Bro Imtiaz of saying that a Rasul can come after Muhammad (saw), Saifi also alleges that Imtiaz denied that the “Muhammad- Rasul-ullah, khatam ul anbiya” will come again. Imtiaz vehemently disagrees. Saifi asks for clarification of Imtiaz’s main argument. Imtiaz clarified that prophets were from Adam (as) to Muhammad (saw) and have ended.
—2:02:00, Bro Imtiaz gives Saifi the mic and lets him talk. Saifi asks for additional clarification on the issue (ikhtilaf) between Muslims and Qadiani’s. Saifi asks do Muslims believe that any Rasul will come after Muhammad (Saw)? Saifi asked do Muslims believe that prophethood is open for anyone to claim the sift (power) of khatam ul anbiya and etc.? Saifi is playing dumb and stupid.
—2:03:45, Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz argues that there is only 1 Muhammad (saw). This is the Islamic belief. Imtiaz wants the verse of the Quran which indicates that after Muhammad (Saw) 1 person would also become Muhammad (saw). In terms of Saifi’s allegation that Muslims believe that Rasul can come after Muhammad (saw).
—2:05:36, Saifi starts, Saifi says that there have been many Muhammad (Saw)’s in the ummah, however, Rasul ullah was only 1 and he took his name. Saifi is misrepresenting what is asked of him. Saifi accuses Bro Imtiaz of avoiding 7:35. Saifi says he presented 1 verse, 7:35 and said that a Rasul can come.
—2:07:06, Imtiaz points out how Ahmadi’s refuse to take a position, they refuse to reject a position also. Imtiaz shows how Saifi took bits and pieces of his aqida from different sources and patched them all together. Imtiaz dares Saifi to say that via 7:35, there would be 1 more person who would be “Muhammad Rasul Ullah”. Imtiaz reminds Saifi that MGA admitted that all the doors of prophethood are closed, however, MGA said that one window is open, that of Sirat e Siddique. Now, Saifi must prove that via 7:35, the window of Sirat e Siddique must open, that person drinks from the same fountain (Chashmay say panee) and that person must wear the cloak (chadar) of Muhammadiyat. Imtiaz repeated this argument.
—2:08:50, Saifi says, do you agree that in 7:35 there is a promise to keep sending Rasul’s? Saifi says that he never claimed (this was not his dawa he said) that he could prove that via 7:35, that the window of Sirat e Siddique must open, that person drinks from the same fountain (Chashmay say panee) and that person must wear the cloak (chadar) of Muhammadiyat. Saifi agrees that he must prove these 3 things, and he will do so from the Quran. Saifi says that the dispute is not over can someone call themselves “Muhammad”, since auliya have also done so, they said, if anyone wants to see the wujud (vessel) of Muhammad (Saw), look at me. Azim Saifi says that the actual dispute is on the word “Rasul Ullah”. Saifi says that this is Imtiaz’s problem and Imtiaz has erected a brick wall. Saifi says that to open this brick wall, he presents 7:35, in this verse, Allah promised to the sons of Adam (as) that he will send Rasul’s. Those Rasul’s will come with “Sirat e Siddique”, they will drink from the same fountain (Chashmay say panee peengay) and that person must wear the cloak (chadar) of Muhammadiyat. This is my job to-do and from the Quran. Saifi says first you admit that Rasul’s can come via this verse 7:35, then we will discuss the 2nd part. I am not dead, I am still alive.
—2:10:52, Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz explains how Saifi said that he will prove via 7:35, that Rasul’s will come from the window of “Sirat e Siddique”, they will drink from the same fountain (Chashmay say panee peengay) and that person must wear the cloak (chadar) of Muhammadiyat. Imtiaz says only 1, you can only do this for one. Imtiaz points out how Saifi promised to do so. Saifi is giving tawasar (playing games). Imtiaz asks Saifi, if someone doesn’t come from the window of “Sirat e Siddique”, doesn’t drink from the same fountain (Chashmay say panee peengay) and doesn’t wear the cloak (chadar) of Muhammadiyat, can that person be a Rasul as such? He must answer! When you answer this question, you will realize the fraud argument by the Ahmadi’s. Imtiaz reminds Saifi that in Ahmadiyya the window of “Sirat e Siddique” only opened for 1 person. Imtiaz repeats himself.
—2:12:19, Saifi starts, Saifi accuses Imtiaz of not giving answers. Saifi admits that even today, Ahmadi’s do believe that only 1 person has came (and fulfilled the requirements). Saifi asks for the Muslim position on 7:35 and accuses Muslims of not believing that even 1 Rasul can come via 7:35. Saifi complains. Saifi affirms that via 7:35, Rasul’s will keep coming. Saifi again asks for the Islamic position on 7:35.
–2:14:25, Bro Imtiaz mentions the dog again. Azim Saifi gets upset about it and says that he was only joking when he said it earlier and why is Imtiaz taking it so defensively that he throws it back at me as such? Bro Imtiaz says that Saifi doesn’t see the brick wall, however, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad saw it and knew about it. Imtiaz points out MGA argued that Hadrat Umar (ra) would have become a Nabi, however, the door was closed. Imtiaz dares Saifi to deny it. Imtiaz says that the 5 things from earlier remain unrefuted, they are that only 1 person will get the name of Muhammad and Ahmad (naam), the makaam of Muhammad Rasool (48:22), Jameee safat, and standing foot by foot, wear the cloack (chadar) and 1 person (prophet). Imtiaz tells Saifi that in his next turn, he will also prove that the via “Sirat e Siddique”, the window will open and etc….Imtiaz repeats. Saifi asks a question. Imtiaz repeats his demands.
—2:17:15, Saifi starts, Saifi says that in the chat, he sees the real dogs of Ahmad Rida Khan. Saifi asks for the reference. Then he explains how via the cloak and etc. He repeats himself.
—2:19:00, Imtiaz starts, he explains how MGA didn’t claim prophethood until at least 1900. Imtiaz says that per MGA, law bearing and non-law bearing prophethood has ended. He challenges Saifi on this. Imtiaz quoted “Massula Khatme Nubuwwat aur Jamaat e Ahmadiyya”, page 4-5. Imtiaz says now look, the door to both of these are closed. Now, Saifi must prove that via “Sirat e Siddique”, the window will open. Imtiaz demands to be seen via 7:35 that MGA that via “Sirat e Siddique”, the window will open for 1 person (MGA), drink from the same fountain (Chashmay say panee peengay) for 1 person and wear the chadar (cloak) for 1 person, then, as a result of this, the 1 person will become Muhammad Rasul Ullah, and will be step by step, on equal footing with Muhammad (Saw), MGA said he is that same Khatam ul anbiya. Show it via 7:35.
—2:20:55, Saifi starts, Saifi says that he doesn’t simply use one verse to prove all of these claims. He says that MGA’s arguments are then put into the Quran. Saifi complains about Imtiaz not talking about 7:35.
—2:23:00, slight intermission. Saifi asks about how much longer are we gonna talk? Saifi seems to have made a negative remark vs. Imtiaz. It was ignored.
—2:23:25, Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz says that Saifi confessed that there is no verse of the Quran which states that via “Sirat e Siddique”, the window will open for 1 person (MGA), drink from the same fountain (Chashmay say panee peengay) for 1 person and wear the chadar (cloak) for 1 person, then, as a result of this, the 1 person will become Muhammad Rasul Ullah, and will be step by step, on equal footing with Muhammad (Saw), MGA said he is that same Khatam ul anbiya. I am the same one who came to this world in the Hejaz. Do you know about this ref? Imtiaz repeats. Imtiaz tells Saifi to pick any other verse of the Quran and prove that it can solve the equation of that via “Sirat e Siddique”, the window will open for 1 person (MGA), drink from the same fountain (Chashmay say panee peengay) for 1 person and wear the chadar (cloak) for 1 person, then, as a result of this, the 1 person will become Muhammad Rasul Ullah, and will be step by step, on equal footing with Muhammad (Saw), MGA said he is that same Khatam ul anbiya. Imtiaz repeats.
—2:25:16, Saifi starts and complains about nothing. Saifi says well, we are stuck on one verse. We have closed some prophethoods and we think another window is open. Saifi admits that he did say that there is no verse of the Quran which says that via “Sirat e Siddique”, the window will open for 1 person (MGA), drink from the same fountain (Chashmay say panee peengay) for 1 person and wear the chadar (cloak) for 1 person, then, as a result of this, the 1 person will become Muhammad Rasul Ullah, and will be step by step, on equal footing with Muhammad (Saw), MGA said he is that same Khatam ul anbiya. Saifi says confusing them. Saifi says that we should end now.
—2:27:15, intermission. They talk to each other. Imtiaz asks for 4 minutes to conclude. Saifi proposes 3 mins.
—2:28:38, Bro Imtiaz starts, Imtiaz gives his concluding remarks. Imtiaz repeats.
—2:31:22, Imtiaz concludes and they talk. Saifi says that he thinks that Imtiaz is getting help from Jews.
—2:32:01, Saifi gives his concluding remarks. 450 people were watching live. Saifi repeats. Saifi complained about nonsensical things. Saifi says that he respects the manners of Imtiaz.
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Links and Related Essay’s
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad on 7:35 of the Quran (7:36 in the Kadiani Koran) – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad on 7:35 of the Quran (7:36 in the Kadiani Koran)
Who is Azim Saifi? Qadiani-Ahmadi TikTok-er living in India – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8gLRvQa/
Click to access A-Misconception-Removed.pdf
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8g8o6wx/
https://x.com/Ahmadiyyafacts/status/2041580351542423752
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