ahmadiyyafactcheckblog

Link to Hadith: https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:4081

When debating a Qadiani online they will present to you the following response whenever someone brings up the above-linked hadith.

Below is the screenshot with their full “refutation”. We will respond to their points in the refutation one by one.

1. Albani (d. 1420 AH.) and Arna’ut (d. 1438 AH.) declared this hadith weak!

To summarise, the Qadianis bring up a ruling from Albani with regards to this hadith.

When doing so, they refuse to show why Albani (d. 1420 AH.) or even Arna’ut (d. 1438 AH.) have said this hadith was weak. The reason both muhaddithin gave was that Mu’thir bin ʿAfazah is majhul (unknown).

They base this decision of theirs on the following. That Mu’thir bin ʿAfazah was not documented by anyone except Ibn Hibban (d. 354 AH.) and al-Ajali (d. 261 AH.), and down to such he can be considered (according to them) from among the unknowns.

NOTE: Notice how neither Albani (d. 1420 AH.) and Arna’ut (d. 1438 AH.) gave the reason that the other narrator who they chose to attack later, Muhammad bin Bashshar, is weak or a liar to reject this hadith as these deceiving Qadianis make it out to be in the second point.

Response to 1:

Now when it comes down to the reasons of Albani (d. 1420 AH.) and Arnaut (d. 1438 AH.), we can see that Albani (d. 1420 AH.) and Arnaut’s (d. 1438 AH.) claim that Mu’thir bin ʿAfazah is unknown has a number of holes.

First of all, Mu’thir bin ʿAfazah wasn’t just seen as trustworthy by ibn Hibban (d. 354 AH.) and al-Ajali (d. 261 AH.)

Because Adh-Dhahabi (d. 748 AH.) and Ibn Hajar (d. 852 AH.) also said that he is accepted and Hakim al-Nishapuri (d. 405 AH.) said that a number of the Tabiʿin have narrated from him.

Points to note:

– If he was unknown, how could they see him as trustworthy?

– If he were unknown, how could Hakim al-Nishapuri (d.405 AH.) say that a number of Tabiʿin have narrated from him?

– If he were unknown and was not documented but only by Ibn Hibban (d. 354 AH.) and al-Ajali (d. 261 AH.), why do we see Hakim al-Nishapuri (d.405 AH.) say that a number of Tabiʿin have narrated from him but beyond that, how is it we see Adh-Dhahabi (d. 748 AH.) Ibn Hajar (d. 852 AH.) also say that he is accepted?

If he were unknown, then surely Hakim al-Nishapuri (d.405 AH.) and Adh-Dhahabi (d. 748 AH), who are greater and far earlier Muhaddithin than Albani (d. 1420 AH.) and Arnaut (d. 1438 AH.), would have pointed that out.

Thus you have the following big scholars that have authenticated and seen him as acceptable/trustworthy. Not one of those who knew him has said even the remotest critique against Mu’thir bin ʿAfazah.

1. Ibn Hibban (d. 354 AH.)
2. Al-Ajali (d. 261 AH.)
3. Adh-Dhahabi (d. 748 AH.)
4. Ibn Hajar (d. 852 AH.)
5. Abu al-ʿAbbas al-Buѕiri (d. 840 A.H,)
6. Muhammad ibn ʿAbdul Hadi as-Sindi (d. 1138 A.H.)

All these names are pre-MGA.

Furthermore, there are themselves a few scholars post-MGA who have stuck with the past muhaddithin and accepted this hadith or the same hadith but with a slight variant.

1. Ahmad Shakir (d. 1377 AH.)
2. Muhammad ʿAwwamah (still living)

It is reasonable to assume Albani (d. 1420 AH) and Arnaut (d. 1438 AH) were wrong in their grading of the hadith, but more so it is clear their reason for rejecting it is problematic for Mu’thir bin ʿAfazah is not unknown.

—————————————————————————-

2. Ibn Hajar (d. 852 AH.) said there is a consensus against Muḥammad bin Bashshār and Yahya Ibn Ma’in (d. 233 AH.) called him weak or a liar!

Response to 2:

First of all, I alluded to how Albani (d. 1420 AH.) and Arnaut (d. 1438 AH.) did not say anything bad about Muhammad bin Bashshar when they graded it weak but rather focused on Mu’thir bin ʿAfazah and said he is amongst the unknown. This serves as the first point in refutation against their lie.

Secondly, their quote from Lisan al-Mizan only helps us. Here it is in full:

The part which they use says:

What is Ihtijaj?What these people have assumed is that Ihtijaj is something bad.

What they do not realise is it means to take someone as a hujjah (proof) thus there’s basically a consensus on taking him as a hujjah (proof).

Meaning, these idiots have basically just shot themselves in the foot.

Not only have they pre-empted this by saying in their response that Ibn Hajar (d. 852 AH.) is respected by every Sunni but his quote of Imam Adh-Dhahabi (d. 748 AH.) does not say what they say below.

The consensus is against them. Ironically.Moving on, now that we know the two people they would rely on at first, which were Albani (d. 1420 AH.) and Arnā’ūṭ (d. 1438 AH.) couldn’t help them with regards to this shameless attack against Muḥammad bin Bashshār given they did not mention him, but so too didn’t Ibn Ḥajar (d. 852 AH.) and his quote of Imam Adh-Dhahabi (d. 748 AH.). 

Nonetheless, let us carry on and go to their next few points:

These points should be joint as one. Because that is its reality.Nonetheless, given we have established he is a trustworthy narrator by consensus of the greatest scholars who the Qadianis themselves admit every Sunni admires. We will also see if any of them commented on these allegations.

Amr bin Ali Al Falas said in the first point that he lied from what he heard from Yahya Ibn Ma’in (d. 233 AH.).

However, in this hadith, he’s narrating from ʿAbdullah ibn Masʿud, not from Yahya Ibn Ma’in (d. 233 AH.) and that’s also if we assume that his allegation is true, considering that the other scholars, including an-Nasa’i (d. 303 AH.) didn’t see anything wrong with him.

Yes, that’s literally what Imām an-Nasa’i (d. 303 AH.) said. That he is valid and there’s nothing wrong with him

And even logically speaking, one of the greatest Muḥaddithīn in history, the author of the most authentic book after the Qur’an, would not include a liar in that very book.

Ibn Khuzaymah (d. 310 AH.), the author of Ѕahih ibn Khuzaymah, literally said that he was the Imam of his time

And so, the allegation is unfound and Yahya bin Maʿin seems to be the only one to deem him weak while everyone else says he’s authentic.

A list of those who deem Muhammad bin Bashshar authentic:

Will we take what Yahya Ibn Ma’in (d. 233 AH.) said over what Imām an-Nasā’ī (d. 303 AH.), Ibn Hajar (d. 852 AH.), Ibn Ḥibbān (d. 354 AH.), Adh-Dhahabi (d. 748 AH.), Ad-Daraqutni (d. 385 AH.), Hakim al-Nishapuri (d.405 AH.), Abu Hatim ar-Razi (d. 277 AH.), Al-Khatib al-Baghdadī (d. 463 AH.), Ibn Khuzaymah (d. 310 AH.) and so on have all said about him?

To stress their dishonesty even further, the very links they share refute them!

Here is the first link they want us to have a look at: https://isnad.io/rawi/30160

Just have a look at his students and the books in which he is a narrator deemed trustworthy enough to be included among.

The very next link they share establishes his overall grade as ثقة حافظ (Thiqah Hafidh).

In hadith science to be declared Thiqah Hafidh is to be deemed reliable and trustworthy with some added focus on precision and strong memory.Nonetheless, these two comments found in the “wounding and modification” section in the above website they shared deal with the claims of Yahya and Al-Falas:

أبو الفتح الأزدي: كتب الناس عنه وقبلوه، وليس قول يحيى والقواريري مما يجرحه، وما رأيت أحدا ذكره إلا بخير وصدق

The link: https://tinyurl.com/MuhammadBinBashshar

In hadith science to be declared Thiqah Hafidh is to be deemed reliable and trustworthy with some added focus on precision and strong memory. Nonetheless, these two comments found in the “criticizing and praising” section in the above website they shared deal with the claims of Yahya and Al-Falas:

أبو الفتح الأزدي: كتب الناس عنه وقبلوه، وليس قول يحيى والقواريري مما يجرحه، وما رأيت أحدا ذكره إلا بخير وصدق

1. Abu al-Fath al-Azdi said: The people have written about him (in an ill manner), and the saying of Yahya [Ibn Ma’in] and al-Qawariri are not from the sayings of criticism (towards Muhammad), and I do not know of anyone except that he has spoken well about him.

ابن حجر العسقلاني: ثقة، ومرة: أحد الثقات المشهورين روى عنه الأئمة الستة ولم يذكر الفلاس سبب تجريحه فلم يعولوا عليه

2. Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani: Trustworthy And [he] once [said], “One of the well-known [trustworthy people] narrated about him from the six imams and al-Falas didn’t mention the cause of the slander, so they didn’t rely on him.” 

So the claim of Falas is unfounded and was rejected, likewise, Yahya Ibn Ma’in (d. 233 AH.) critique is contradicted by many many others and thus he is outweighed.All in all, the two points which are given against this hadith has been extensively refuted in this piece.

All in all, the chain is as follows I have put a confused emoji on the narrators the Qadianis have found issues with:

حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بَشَّارٍ .1 (Muhammad bin Bashshar) 🔽😕
2. حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ بْنُ هَارُونَ (Yazin bin Harun) 🔽

3. حَدَّثَنَا الْعَوَّامُ بْنُ حَوْشَبٍ (Al-ʿAwwam bin Hawshab) 🔽

4. حَدَّثَنِي جَبَلَةُ بْنُ سُحَيْمٍ (Jabalah bin Suhaym) 🔽

5. عَنْ مُؤْثِرِ بْنِ عَفَازَةَ (Mu’thir bin ʿAfazah) 🔽😕

6. عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ مَسْعُودٍ (Abdullah bin Masood) 🔽

A summary about each narrator:

1. Muhammad bin Bashshar 

Abu Hatim ar-Razi said that he’s truthful, an-Nasa’i said that he’s valid and there’s nothing wrong with him, ad-Daraqutni said that he’s from the [precise] memorizers and established ones [in trustworthiness], ibn Hibban mentioned him in his book of trustworthy narrators, al-ʿIjli said that he’s trustworthy and has many Ahadith, adh-Dhahabi said that he was authenticated by more than one [Scholar], ibn Hajar said that he’s trustworthy, al-Khatib (al-Baghdadi probably) said that his Ahadith are popular and very big in number and that he was trustworthy, ibn Khuzaymah said that he was the Imam of his time and so on.

The critiques the Qadianis may bring are:

As for the statements of Al-Qawariri, Al-Fallas and Yahya bin Maʿin they were responded to by Abu al-Fath who said:

And as Ibn Hajar mentioned, the consensus about him is he is used as proof. Makes sense given he narrates in Sahih Muslim and Bukhari and used to be their teacher. And also narrated around 35+ hadith in Bukhari that is.

2. Yazin bin Harun

Ibn Hibban authenticated him, ibn Hajar said that he’s trustworthy, proficient and pious (if understood correctly). Adh-Dhahabi said that he’s one of the knowledgeable people, ibn Saʿd said that he’s trustworthy and has many Ahadith, Yaʿqub bin Shaybah said that he’s trustworthy, Abu Bakr ibn Abi Shaybah (the author of Muѕannaf ibn Abi Shaybah) said that he didn’t see anyone as proficient in memorization as him.Ibn Qaniʿ said that he’s trustworthy and reliable, al-Ajali said that he’s trustworthy and is proven to be reliable in Hadith and that he’s a pious worshipper who has perfected his Ѕalah. Abu Hatim ar-Razi said that he is trustworthy, an Imam, and truthful in Hadith,ʿAli ibn al-Madini said that he didn’t see anyone that memorizes as well as him.

3. Al-ʿAwwam bin Hawshab

Abu Hatim ar-Razi said that he is valid, Abu Zarʿah ar-Razi said that he’s trustworthy, ad-Darimi said that he’s trustworthy, ibn Saʿd said that he was trustworthy, Hashim said that he hasn’t seen someone tell the truth as much as him, ibn Hajar said that he’s trustworthy, established [in his trustworthiness] and virtuous, adh-Dhahabi said that he is one of the knowledgeable people, that he was authenticated by Scholars and that he had around 100 Ahadith, al-Ajali said that he is trustworthy, a companion of the Sunnah, established [in his trustworthiness] and is valid, ibn Hibban included him in his book of trustworthy narrators, Imam an-Nasa’i said that there’s nothing wrong with him.

Abu Hatim ar-Razi said that he’s trustworthy, Murrah said that he’s valid in Hadith, an-Nasa’i said that he’s trustworthy, ibn Hibban included him in his book of trustworthy narrators, al-Ajali said that he’s trustworthy, adh-Dhahabi said that he’s trustworthy, ibn Hajar said that he’s trustworthy, and more.5. Mu’thir bin ʿAfazah 

Ibn Hibban included him in his book of trustworthy narrators, al-Ajali said that he is trustworthy, adh-Dhahabi that he was established as trustworthy (or something along that line), ibn Hajar said that he’s accepted, al-Hakim al-Nishapuri said that a group/community from the Tabiʿin have narrated from him.

Nothing needs to be said here beyond he is a companion of the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم)—————————————————————————-

By 🇵🇸『سَلِيْمْ』🇵🇸

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

—————————————————————————-

Additional Info:

Join us on Discord @ Ahmadiyya Fact Check Blog:

Below is a link to an Islamic Discord Server, whose aims are to educate and familiarise Muslim youth and others to respond to the misinformation that the Ahmadiyya Movement is sharing in the name of the beautiful religion of Islam.Ahmadiyya Fact Check Blog is a Discord server whose main aim is to be a resource centre and a platform for those who want to explore the reality of the Ahmadiyya Movement in an academic manner.The aims of this server are to ultimately educate and familiarise Muslim youth and others to respond to the misinformation that the Ahmadiyya Movement is sharing in the name of the beautiful religion of Islam. And as such, this server is set up only for truth-seekers of all kinds to join and mainly people who have previously engaged with members of the Ahmadiyya Movement to best share their input and the right approach so as to giving dawah to Ahmadis or for those simply affected by their movements misinformation.As a server, we’d prefer the quality of the members of the server to be better than the quantity and we will remove any members who are here just to troll or insult any Ahmadi members with no hesitation – therefore the number of servers numbers, mean nothing to us. As a result of the above, any other non-Muslims are not encouraged to join this server as we look to attract solely right-minded Muslims and sincere Ahmadis that wish to debate or discuss our common and not so common beliefs together.If you have an interest in responding to Ahmadiyya misinformation, have questions about their beliefs, or simply are learning more about the best way in combating their misinformation, this will be a server for you. If you are interested in joining, an invite is below:https://discord.gg/Eq9aG5BHHj