Intro
On Dec-2-2025, Maulvi Razi met with Qaiser Raja on the Muslim Today youtube channel to discuss rules for a potential upcoming debate. Bro Imtiaz, Qaiser Raja, Amir Haq and others did a debate review on Dec-3-2025. On Dec-4-2025, Zaitoon FM also collaborated with Qaiser Raja and made a video on this topic. Shams ud Din has also commented.
In this discussion, Maulvi Razi didn’t engage with the intention to make rules for a debate, NO, Maulvi Razi came with the intention to give his arguments to a big audience in the hope to confuse a Muslim and get converts to Qadianism.
In response to this, Qaiser Raja mentioned that Janba group accuses the Mirza family of zina and this is because of Nida and other stories. Qaiser Raja says that if Razi doesn’t admit to it, Qaiser Raja can play the audio conversation of Mirza Masoor Ahmad and Nida in 2021 (see the clip on Tiktok and Twitter).
Qaiser Raja mentioned how MGA said that those people who don’t look at his books in reverence are (“walud ul Haraam”), is this an inference to MGA’s first wife’s (Hurmat Bibi) non-acceptance and the status of her children (Mirza Sultan Ahmad and Mirza Fazl Ahmad) as sons of prostitutes in 1893 (See on TikTok)? In response to this, Maulvi Razi interrupts and says that NO, Ahmad Rida Khan said the same about you (Qaiser Raja).
In this clip, (See on TikTok) Qaiser Raja says that Maulvi Razi has embarrassed Ahmadiyya more than any other person on this planet. People will say this, and this video will be evidence.
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https://www.youtube.com/live/L_hBfW6pgJA?si=50lgcgEBoAEfiPC-
–At 2:00, Qaiser Raja is introduced. Qaiser Raja explains how Razi has been begging for a debate in a battlefield, however, Maulvi Razi kept giving links to his own stream, and that wasn’t fair. However, Qaiser Raja was able to convince Razi to come onto a neutral stream.
–At 3:30, Maulvi Razi is introduced and he complained about the usage of “Qadiani” in the thumbnail. Maulvi Razi says that he considers himself an “Ahmadi-Muslim” and should be referred to as such.
–At 4:16, the hosts reminds Maulvi Razi that this is not a debate, just a discussion on rules. At 5:45, he reminds both people to not interrupt. At 6:38, Qaiser Raja clarified that he sees MGA as “liar” (choota).
–At 7:35, the host asks Qaiser Raja how he will refer to MGA. Qaiser Raja says that he is better than MGA won’t cuss at the opponents of women like MGA did. Razi interrupted (1st time). At 8:48, Qaiser Raja says that Razi has the right to use (as) for MGA, however, if he does, Muslims have the right to say “Lanaat”. Qaiser Raja says that he will refer to MGA as a commoner and not give any respect in a desi style.
–At 9:50, Maulvi Razi alleges that Christians also refused to show respect to Muhammad (saw) when they were debated by Kairanwi in the 1800’s (vs. Pfander), Maulvi Razi alleges that the Christian missionaries cussed at Muhammad (saw)(however, no evidence was given). Maulvi Razi cries and says that Muslims are opening the door to allowing Christians and Hindu’s to cuss at Muhammad (Saw)(a total lie). Razi even tried to bring up the verse wherein it says to not CUSS the gods of other religions, since that will cause them to cuss at Allah.
–At 12:18, Maulvi Razi used (as) for MGA. Maulvi Razi alleges that MGA never cussed at any women, instead it was Ahmadi Rida Khan who did so.
–At 12:35, Qaiser Raja starts talking and reminds the audience that Razi runs his mouth and this is why he is here today, to get rinsed, Maulvi Razi has been hiding in house and now he is in the battlefield and he will get the full “treatment” by Qaiser Raja. Qaiser Raja says that he will then quote the books of MGA and show Razi wherein MGA said this.
–At 13:16, Maulvi Razi responds, Maulvi Razi alleges that even the Quran uses “harsh words” for the opponents of Islam, thus, MGA is absolved. Maulvi Razi alleges that MGA only cussed at those people who disrespected Muhammad (saw).
–At 14:30, Qaiser Raja says that if Maulvi Razi wants him to follow the Quranic rules of dialogue vs. Non-Muslims, he is happy to do that it Maulvi Razi admits that he is non-Muslim.
–At 15:42, Maulvi Razi begins his presentation. Maulvi Razi presented a reference from 1908, via Malfuzat (Dated as May-25-1908, see Malfuzat-10, online English edition, pages 573-576, see also Badr, vol. 7, no. 23, p. 7, dated 11 June 1908). He then presents RK-20, page-456, Qadian-ke-Ariya Aur Hum, wherein there is a poem of MGA wherein MGA loves Muhammad (Saw). Maulvi Razi then attacked Thanvi and showed quotes about Thanvi wherein he allegedly did Kufr. Maulvi Razi than begins quoting Ahmad Rida Khan. Maulvi Razi is mad that Qaiser Ahmad Raja considers all schools of Islam in Pakistan as Muslim, Barelvi’s, Deobandi’s and Shia’s. At 19:15, Maulvi Razi made the same argument that Maulvi Raheel made many years earlier and alleges that “if you want to call a glass of alcohol as water”, go ahead and do so! Maulvi Razi then quotes Rasheed Ahmad Gangohi and makes allegations on him and is trying to prove that MGA used similar language. Maulvi Razi then quotes Qasim Nanotvi. At 20:00, Maulvi Razi quotes the hadith wherein Muhammad (Saw) said that anyone who calls a True Muslim a Kafir has become a Kafir himself. Maulvi Razi is made that Muslims in Pakistan consider Shias as Muslim, but not Ahmadi’s. At 21:25, Maulvi Razi alleges that only one firqa is correct, all others are Kafir. Maulvi Razi presented other instances of Muslims takfeering each other in Pakistan. At 23:50, Maulvi Razi alleged that MGA called people as “Dhurriyatul Baghaya” to only those who hearts are sealed (see 2:7), Razi showed a reference to “Ainah Kamalate Islam” (pages 547-548, Urdu). Maulvi Razi said that Qaiser Raja doesn’t know Arabic. Maulvi Razi alleges that MGA singled out Christians who were cussing at Muhammad (saw) day and night! Maulvi Razi quotes Rumi and alleged that these curse words are only metaphors. Razi cries that Ahmad Rida Khan used the same words, however, it wasn’t metaphorical. Razi 10 mins ends, however, Razi says that he has more time since his screen wasn’t sharing. At 26:50, MaulvI Razi quotes a shia book in terms of them using baghaya against their opponents.
–At 27:30, Qaiser Raja starts, he points out how Maulvi Razi didn’t talk about any rules, Maulvi Razi forgot about everything he said on twitter. Raja says that he only had 2 conditions, that Maulvi Razi is a “representative of the Ahmadiyya Movement” and thus, the views of Razi can’t be disowned. The second was that Qadiani books will be quoted. Thus, Maulvi Razi will not be allowed to quote anything outside of Qadiani books. This was shown to Razi. Tichi Tichi! Qaiser Raja quoted a reference from Al-Fazl wherein it is stated that the differences between Qadiani’s and Muslims is not simply on the alleged death of Eisa (as), NO, it is much more. Qaiser Raja gives a list of differences between Muslims and Qadiani’s. Ahmadi’s disrespect prophets and Muslims and then call Muslims as Kafirs. Qaiser Raja says why should we discuss the life and alleged death of Eisa (as), when we differ with Qadiani’s on God and etc? Qaiser Raja quoted ROR, Urdu of 1915 (Kalimatul Fasl) by Mirza Bashir Ahmad. Additional references are given wherein Ahmadi’s wrote that only the view of MGA is considered Islam. Qaiser Raja quoted MGA wherein MGA wrote that he came from the water of Allah. Additional quotes are given. Qaiser Raja says its confusing, MGA claims to have had relations with God, and after 10 months a baby is born. What kind of sick mind is that! MGA’s disrespect towards Hussain (ra) is also quoted.
At 38:00, Qaiser Raja tells the host to force Razi to discuss the terms of conditions of the proposed debate and to stop presenting his arguments as such.
At 38:15, Maulvi Razi starts his response and calls MGA as (as). Maulvi Razi keeps quoting Muslims who wrote about other Muslims. At 39:38, Qaiser Raja interrupts and says that Maulvi Razi is talking off the topic and is refusing to address the topic. Confusion erupts! Qaiser Raja explains how Maulvi Razi doesn’t want to talk on the subject.
At 42:04, the hosts try to solve the quagmire. At 42:24, Qaiser Raja tells the host to make sure Razi stays on the topic, Maulvi Razi plays games and is looking for content to clip. Raja says that Razi comes from a religion of liars. Raja says that Maulvi Razi is wasting time, if Maulvi Razi doesn’t want to confirm the terms of conditions of their debate, he can leave! Raja wants to change to 5-minute exchanges.
At 46:00, Maulvi Razi starts again and alleges that the reference from ROR in the above (Kalimatul Fasl) was presented incorrectly. Maulvi Razi quotes the famous hadith and alleges that the Quran will be gone in the end times or something like that. Razi keeps attacking Deobandi’s, Barelvi’s and Ahle-hadeeth. Maulvi Razi alleges that Sirhindi said that when the Imam Mahdi comes, Muslims will oppose him, Maulvi Razi insinuates that this is what is being mentioned in Kalimatul Fasl. Razi quotes “Anjam-e-Athim” and alleges that MGA only called himself as the water of Allah in a metaphorical way. Maulvi Razi accuses Qaiser Raja of using a perchee. Razi talks bad about Shias and Barelvi’s. MaulvI Razi quoted Maudoodi and alleged that Maudoodi said that Muhammad (Saw) had failed (na-kaam)(naozobillah) and thus raised the sword. Maulvi Razi then accuses Muslims of writing bad about the Zainab (ra) whom Muhammad (Saw) had married.
At 51:20, Qaiser Raja responds and says that Maulvi Razi didn’t talk on the topic. Qaiser Raja explains that a Qadiani could be dying, he will not talk about MGA at all. Qaiser Raja explains that Razi is a Kafir, however, he is trying to tell Muslims about the Quran and hadith. At 53:25, Maulvi Razi interrupts and says that MGA never cussed, Ahmad Rida Khan did! Tichi Tichi! Qaiser Raja explains how Ahmadis do Takfir and hate Muslims. Qadiani’s say that if Muslims don’t listen to them, they are confirmed Kafirs, and are women are also cursed. Qaiser Raja explains how the Qadiani religion is totally different from Islam. Ahmadi’s arrogantly think they can tell us which hadith are accurate and etc. Fallacy of circular reasoning!
–At 57:35, the host and Qaiser Raja remind Razi that he can talk again, however, he must stay on topic, which he hasn’t done for almost an hour now. At 58:20, Maulvi Razi finally started talking about the rules. Maulvi Razi cries about Muslim sectarianism. Maulvi Razi attacks Ahmad Rida Khan again. Maulvi Razi wants to only discuss Quran and hadith, and Islamic scholars, not MGA. Maulvi Razi said who’s definition of “Khatme Nubuwwat” will Qaiser present? Maulvi Razi mentioned Amir Haq. Maulvi Razi says that Qaiser Raja is defending Kufr, not Islam.
–At 1:03:10, Qaiser Raja starts, he explains how Ahmadi’s are trained to speak like this. In reality, all of these Islamic groups have done Takfir of Ahmadi’s. In terms of the Quran being the judge, the only way the Quran can be the judge is if Razi writes that only the interpretation of MGA will be taken. Qaiser Raja quotes Tafseer-e-Sagheer and says that Maryam (as) was disrespected, this was a tahreef from MGA, Ahmadi’s don’t follow MGA! Ahmadi’s only see the Quran per the interpretation of MGA. Qaiser Raja explains how the entire conception of the Quran is different between Muslims and Qadiani’s. Ahmadi’s believe that the Quran was revealed to MGA in Qadian. Maulvi Razi wants to talk about the life of Eisa (As), however, Qaiser Raja quotes Izala Auham, wherein MGA argues that the life and death of Eisa (as) is not an essential part of Islam (or something like that). RK-20 was quoted again and MGA called it unimportant. Qaiser Raja quoted Haqiqatul Wahi and showed how MGA also believed in the physical return of Eisa (as). At the end, Qaisar Raja explains how contradictory it is for Ahmadi’s to call Muslims as Kafirs, however, they call us to the rules of the Quran.
–At 1:08:28, Maulvi Razi starts speaking, Maulvi Razi cries about Qaiser Raja not saying “Mirza sahib”. Maulvi Razi again says that Qaiser Raja is being like the Christians vs. Rahmatullah Kairanwi. Qaiser Raja interrupts and says this was Muslims vs. Kafirs and Qaiser is willing to accept this inference. However, Razi says no. Maulvi Razi calls the fatwa of Kufr by Muslims against Ahmadi’s as “Fatwa by Kafirs”. Razi keeps crying about sectarianism in Islam. Maulvi Razi admits that the Quran of Muslims is different. Maulvi Razi accuses Ibn Taymiyya of saying that he brought interpretations of the Quran which never existed before. Maulvi Razi says that Muslims must prove that Eisa (As) is still alive. Maulvi Razi quoted Batalvi and his review of the Barahin.
–At 1:15:10, Qaiser Raja starts, Qaiser says that Maulvi Razi has admitted that Muslims are Kafirs, and thus, the final result has came out. Qaiser Raja asks, if Ahmadi’s consider us Kafir, then how can the Quran judge between us? Maulvi Razi called the agreement by all Muslim schools that Ahmadi’s are Kafir is “ijma of the Kafirs”, thus, Razi admitted that Muslims are Kuffar. Qadiani’s will die, but they won’t quote MGA. What happened to Ahmadi’s pretending to be innocent? Per Qadiani’s, all sects of Qadiani’s are Kuffar! Ahmadi’s consider the words of MGA as Wahi. Razi has embarrassed (zaleel) Qadiani’s more than anyone else in the world! Muslims don’t care about the Janba group and other Ahmadiyya sects. Qaiser Raja points out how Razi was comparing Kashf from a prophet to that of a non-prophet. MGA said that he is a stinky place. Razi interrupts and asks Qaiser Raja to make an oath (say Wallah). There is nothing in common with Qadiani’s and Muslims.
–At 1:20:45, the debate portion of the rounds has ended.
–At 1:21:27, the hosts tries to find a solution. There is no topic that has been chosen for a future debate. There don’t seem to be any. Razi wants 3 minutes to give a summary. Arguments break out!
–At 1:23:47, Qaiser Raja and Razi are muted. A future debate is not decided upon. Maulvi Razi says Muslims differ on the Quran. Razi keeps barking! Maulvi Razi attacks Muslims in Pakistan. Qaiser Raja disagrees and says that Maulvi Razi just wants to present his silly arguments. At 1:24:32, Qaiser Raja proposes a topic of discussion, “Qadianiat in competition with Islam”, “Who is True”. Maulvi Razi says that Deobandi’s, Barelvi’s and Ahl-e-Hadeeth. Razi starts crying about sectarianism in Islam. Maulvi Razi says that Qaiser Raja doesn’t accept the Quran by Ahmad Rida Khan. Maulvi Razi accuses Ahmad Rida Khan of calling Muhammad (Saw) has “hazir-nazir”. Maulvi Razi says that Janba group is gumra (lost). Maulvi Razi says why should he discuss the Janba group, he considers them Kafir. Razi will have a heart attack! Maulvi Razi refuses to discuss the Janba group. Razi has went mad! Ahmadi’s claim that anyone who calls themselves a Muslim can do so, however, when it comes to the Janba group, Razi says NO. Qaiser Raja explains how Janba accuses of the Mirza family of Zina. Maulvi Razi keeps saying that Ahmadiyya Takfir is different than Muslim Takfir. Maulvi Razi says that Hell is not forever, Ahmadi’s don’t condemn anyone to Hell.
–At 1:30:00, the host mutes both mics and asks for concluding remarks.
–At 1:30:51, Maulvi Razi starts barking. Maulvi Razi alleges that Ahmadiyya Takfir is different than Islamic Takfir, Maulvi Razi says that Muslims force Kafirs to live like Kafirs, the same way that Ahmadi’s are treated in Pakistan. Maulvi Razi alleges that Ahmadi’s aren’t allowed to pray and etc. Maulvi Razi says that anyone can act like a Muslim. Maulvi Razi says that Muslims aren’t in “Haqiqi Islam”, however, they are still within the millat of Islam. Maulvi Razi argues that only Ahmadiyya is the saved sect and all other Muslims are lost (gumra). Maulvi Razi is crying about Ahmadiyya persecution. Maulvi Razi says that Janba-Ahmadi’s aren’t his brothers. Maulvi Razi argues that Deobandi’s and Barelvi’s differ on their Quran. Razi cries about sectarianism.
–At 1:34:24, Qaiser Raja says he knew it all along, Maulvi Razi was not here to discuss any rules for any debate and that is exactly what happened. Maulvi Razi refused to quote MGA properly. Qaiser Raja is happy that Maulvi Razi admitted that even Ahmadiyya Takfir is different. Qaiser Raja explains how the different sects of Ahmadiyya are always cussing at each other. At 1:35:54, Maulvi Razi interrupts. Pajjay dee ma! The mother of Mirza Sultan Ahmad. Razi must explain why the first wife of MGA was not called “Ummal Momineen” (Mother of the believers). Qaiser Raja points out that Razi doesn’t allow Janba group to call themselves as “Ahmadi’s”, however, Maulvi Razi had argued that they let anyone call themselves anything. Qaiser Raja mentions a case in Africa wherein a secular court will decide who the Khalifa of Ahmadi’s is or isn’t. At 1:37:58, Qaiser Raja mentions Nida and how she was raped and Maulvi Razi immediately objects and cries that this is off topic. Qaiser Raja explains that this is why Janba accuses the Mirza family of incest. Tichi Tichi! Razi says the curse of Allah is on the liars! 1:40:00, Maulvi Razi leaves the stream. Qaiser Raja explains how Nida was raped over and over by the Mirza family. Qaiser Raja points out how when any Ahmadi go against Ahmadiyya, the Qadiani-Ahmadi’s kick them out, however, when Muslims did the same to Qadiani’s, they cry. Razi only came here to sell his “vagueness”.
–At 1:42:49, Maulvi Razi gave his concluding remarks. Maulvi Razi refuses to call Qaiser and “Sahib”, Maulvi Razi alleges that everything that Qaiser said is a lie. Maulvi Razi then admits that muslim’s see all schools of Islami in Pakistan as Muslim. Maulvi Razi is made that Qaiser Raja won’t do Takfir on Muslims.
–At 1:44:00, Qaiser Raja starts with his final remarks. Qaisar Raja says that the debate between Islam and Qadianism and reached a new stage. Since Maulvi Razi has admitted that the Quran that is used by Muslims is different than the Quran used by Qadiani’s. Qaisar Raja says that Muhammad (Saw) said that there will always be a group on Islam. At 1:45:28, Maulvi Razi interrupts again.
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Scans shown by Razia Baji
1907
Feb-1907
Al-Hakam, vol. 11, no. 7, p. 12, dated 24 February 1907
Malfuzat-7, online English edition, pages 146-148
Malfuzat-Urdu
Al-Hakam, vol. 11, no. 7, p. 12, dated 24 February 1907
Click to access Al-Hakam-vol.-11-no.-7-p.-12-dated-24-February-1907.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/live/L_hBfW6pgJA?si=_2RST4pgJweSJ5TA
In Feb-1907, After Sa‘dullah of Ludhiana died (he died in Jan-1907), MGA mentioned him in the Al-Hakam, vol. 11, no. 7, p. 12, dated 24 February 1907 (See also Malfuzat-9, online English edition, pages 146-148). MGA and his team of writers quoted MGA’s poem from Anjam e Athim wherein Sa‘dullah of Ludhiana was referred to as “ibn bagha” (son of zina). In this utterance, MGA alleges that Sa‘dullah of Ludhiana had indirectly entered a Mubahila with MGA which caused Sa‘dullah of Ludhiana to die 10 years later. In Dec-2025, Maulvi Razi alleged (24:20 time stamp) that MGA wrote that when he used “ibn bagha” for Sa‘dullah of Ludhiana in 1898, MGA meant “sarkash insan”. In 2023, here razi claims mga translated “ibn e baghay” as “sarkash insan” (9:33 timestamp).
As Haqiqatul Wahi was published (May-1907), MGA claimed that Sa’dullah died of plague and mubahila. MGA also purposely left out his poetry wherein he called Sa’dullah as the son of prostitutes (ibn Bagha)(See page 446 and 450 of the Appendix of Haqeeqat-ul-Wahi (RK- 22, Urdu) and see pages, 554, 559 and 564 of the English edition). Mirza Bashir Ahmad claims that Muhammad Ali advised MGA to leave this out, in fear of legal recourse, i.e. the son of Sa’dullah might have sued for defamation. Dard tells us it was Khwaja Kamal-ud-Din and not Muhammad Ali however (See the al-Hakam, volume 38, number 7, February 28, 1935, pages 3–4, narrating the eye-witness accounts of Maulavi Muhammad Ibrahim Baqapuri, via the 2009 online edition of Tadhkirah and via Seeratul Mehdi, page 31 part 1).
Al-Hakam, vol. 12, no. 22, p. 3–4, dated 26 March 1908, March-25-1908
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Links and Related Essay’s
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8UxgmCB/
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8UxV2Bf/
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Mirza Sultan Ahmad, MGA’s eldest son, 1856-1931 – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
Who is Mirza Fazl Ahmad (1860-1904), the son of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad? – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
Who is Mirza Fazl Ahmad (1860-1904), the son of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad?
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https://ahmadiyyafactcheckblog.com/?s=Janba
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https://ahmadiyyafactcheckblog.com/?s=Qaisar+Raja
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad cursed at his critics, even calling them pigs, bitches and sons of prostitutes
Hurmat Bibi, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s first wife – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog
https://x.com/qaiseraraja/status/1996634899370201512
https://youtu.be/AibVObyWGTM?si=F40IrbR458s2eVYt
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