"Truthfulness" Or Falsehood Of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani, Debate-3, Bro Imtiaz (questioner) vs. Saleem Meer (respondent) 1-18-25-Part-1, 0:00 to 15:26

Intro
On 1-18-25, Bro Imtiaz debated Saleem Meer on the topic of “Truthfulness” Or Falsehood Of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani. This is part of a 4 series debate. The first was on 1-4-25, Part-2 was on 1-11-25, and Part-3 was today. The final debate is Amir Haq vs. Saleem Meer on the topic of Yuz Asaf, this was supposed to have been done 4 years ago, however, Saleem Meer ran off and refused.

Saleem spoke very disrespectfully about Muhammad (saw)(see herein on twitter and tiktok).

The full review is in the below….

*–my personal notes.

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00:00 to 5:07, Saleem Meer gives his opening statement. Saleem says that he has written down his explanation of the truthfulness of MGA and will read off of it. Saleem says that the sons of Adam (as) were given prophethood. Saleem quoted 7:35. Saleem also says that ALL prophets before Muhammad (Saw) have died (Qad khallat)(see 5:75 and 3:144) and 5:116. Saleem mentions how Muhammad (Saw) made a prophecy about Maseeh ibn Maryam who was yet to come (*Sahih Bukhari on 4:159, Book of the Prophets, Book 60, Hadith 118, Vol. 4, Book 55, Hadith 657, Chapter: The advent (descent) of ‘Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) alayhis-salam). However, Saleem says that Muslims took the words of this prophecy literally and made the same mistakes as others (Jews) and thus denied the claims of MGA. Muslims believe that a previous nabi (Eisa [as]), who is still alive for 2000 years and will physically return at some time. We both believe in the arrival of another Nabi, and the Quran says that the Nabi who is to come will be from within the ummah. These are the foundations of the story. I am the respondent, I believe that MGA is true in his claims. You (Imtiaz) are the questioner. It says in the Quran, if there is ever a dispute (*between two parties, see 4:59), refer to the Quran. Thus, I will use the Quran to establish the truthfulness of MGA. Per the Quran, and per the prophecy of Muhammad (saw)(*see Sahih Bukhari on 4:159, Book of the Prophets, Book 60, Hadith 118, Vol. 4, Book 55, Hadith 657, Chapter: The advent (descent) of ‘Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) alayhis-salam). Thus, per the prophecy of Muhammad (Saw), we believe that MGA is a Nabi in one way and an Ummati in another way. Again, just a reminder, the topic here is the Truthfulness of MGA. Ahmadi’s believe in this, whereas the 72 sects (*of Muslims) believe otherwise. Today I am the respondent and Imtiaz is the questioner.

05:09, Bro Imtiaz starts, it is good that you have announced that today I am the questioner and you are the respondent. Whatever you have written down on your copy (paper), I don’t want to hear any of that script. Whatever questions I ask you today, you have to answer those, not anything else (his pocketbook, script/perchee). I don’t want to talk about anything irrelevant, if you do on your TikTok broads, that’s your own business. I am here to talk about Mirza Ghulam Qadiani, who is the founder (banee) of your jamaat, in any of reference (and you have referenced his claim of being Maseel-e-Maseeh). All of these things fall under the category if MGA was a Muslim! Moreover, the beliefs of MGA have to match those of Kitab and Sunnah of the Muslims. Make sure you make a note of my questions about objections. The questions and objections are as follows: if you read the writings of MGA, MGA is not a Muslim! In terms of Tauhid, whatever I say, I will give full references. The first thing is the belief in Tawhid (the oneness of Allah), which is a fundamental concept in Islam. MGA’s beliefs on Tauhid were totally against the Quran. For example, in 1891, MGA said that his God had an infinite amount of hands and feet, like a Tendwa (*Octopus, see pages 61 and 62). At 7:40, is Imtiaz saying that MGA alleged that Allah was inside of him (all the refs are herein). In 1907, MGA also said that when his God makes a promise, sometimes he fulfills it and sometimes he breaks it (See footnotes, Haqiqatul Wahi, Online English edition, Pages 123-124. 2018 edition). MGA also alleged that he was given the power of giving life and death, “Kun Fa Ya Kun” (*See Barahin-i-Ahmadiyya-5, page 153)(RK-16, page 56 in Urdu, via Khutbah ilhamia). MGA also alleged that his God does fasting and does iftar (*the breaking of the fast)(*See footnotes, Haqiqatul Wahi, Online English edition, Pages 123-124. 2018 edition). I have given you just a few references, if you need them, I can give them in detail. Thus, I am arguing that in terms of the acceptance of Tauhid, MGA was not a Muslim. Now, you need to answer, to establish the truthfulness of MGA, from any reference, before we accept the truthfulness of MGA, is proving MGA a Muslim a rule or not? You have to answer this, since I am the questioner. Question number-2, if you can’t prove that MGA is a Muslim, after I have explained MGA’s explanations (*of Tauhid). This is the fundamentals of our dialogue going forward. After that, in Islam there is the belief in Risalat (*messengership and Nubuwwat). MGA argued that Muhammad (Saw) failed in his mission (fareeza) (naozobillah) or wasn’t able to complete his mission (fareeza) and thus his 2nd coming was required to complete his mission via Baruz. This is Kufree-a belief! After that, MGA claimed to be the second coming of Muhammad (Saw)(naozobillah). To cover all of this up, MGA claimed to be a Baruz (re-incarnation). Whatever you want (*references) I will give it! For the time being, I have given you 2 examples. 1–MGA didn’t believe in Tauhid per Islam, nor did he believe in Risalat (*messengership and Nubuwwat).

10:07, Saleem starts, he asks Imtiaz to keep time for him and vice versa. He starts again at 10:43. Saleem says that he is the respondent and the questioner. I have a dawah and daleel. Whatever dawah a person presents, there is a daleel. This is my responsibility. Like I told you earlier, the Quran tells us to judge via the Quran (*see 4:59). Whatever I have written on my copy it is per these rules. Whatever daleel I give it will be via the Quran in terms of the truthfulness of MGA. Whatever objections you are presenting was already done by your elders, they had nothing to do with the Quran. You have not presented anything from the Quran. The 10-15 points that you have brought from some book, and now you want an answer, first give me all of these references. I will read those entire references and then give you an answer. But if you give me a reference, and I don’t ask for it, first you have to give the reference, then we will talk about it, but what I don’t want, is that you bring 25 points from your copy, and quickly spit them out in 2 mins, that’s not hard, but there is NO references, you don’t know where it is or not written, the people listening will not be able to understand, are these your own words? or are they actually written? You have been using “Sabooht Hazar hai” book for your references via the index and you said that in your 5 minutes. I will give the truthfulness of MGA from the Quran. You need to give a verse from the Quran which shows the definition of a Muslim.

12:47, Bro Imtiaz responds, like I said earlier, MGA is not a Muslim based on his beliefs on Tauhid, nor is he a Muslim based on Risalat (*messengership and Nubuwwat). You said you want a decision based on the Quran. Then you should establish from the Quran what Tauhid is. MGA said that his God had an infinite amount of hands and feet, like a Tendwa (*Octopus, see pages 61 and 62, RK. V-3, page 90 for the Urdu ref). MGA also said that when his God makes a promise, sometimes he fulfills it and sometimes he breaks it (*See footnotes, Haqiqatul Wahi, Online English edition, Pages 123-124. 2018 edition)(RK-22, page 106 in Urdu).

13:34, Saleem interrupts Imtiaz and asks for references, he alleges that Imtiaz should say them slowly because he is writing them down.

13:49, Bro Imtiaz starts again, in terms of the belief in Tauhid, which was my first contention. Again, MGA has explained that his God is like a tendwa and has an infinite amount of hands and feet (*Octopus, see pages 61 and 62)(RK-3, page 90 in Urdu). MGA also said that when his God makes a promise, sometimes he fulfills it and sometimes he breaks it (*See footnotes, Haqiqatul Wahi, Online English edition, Pages 123-124. 2018 edition)(RK-22, page 106 in Urdu).
MGA also alleged that he was given the power of giving life and death (RK-16, page 56 in Urdu, via Khutbah ilhamia). MGA also alleged that his God does fasting and does iftar (*the breaking of the fast)(*See footnotes, Haqiqatul Wahi, Online English edition, Pages 123-124. 2018 edition)(RK-22, page 107). MGA also alleged that he was given the power of giving life and death, via “Kun Fa Ya Kun” (*See Barahin-i-Ahmadiyya-5, page 153)(RK-22, page 108, Haqiqatul Wahi, Urdu).

14:54, Saleem interrupts and confirms the ref of (RK-22, page 108, Haqiqatul Wahi, Urdu). Can you repeat this, just for me to be sure. I also need the “Kun Fa Ya Kun” reference. Bro Imtiaz said it can also be found at RK-21, page 124, Urdu (*See Barahin-i-Ahmadiyya-5, page 153). Saleem confirms this reference.

15:26, Saleem starts..

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