"Truthfulness" Or Falsehood Of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani, Debate-3, Bro Imtiaz (questioner) vs. Saleem Meer (respondent) 1-18-25-Part-3, 28:32 to ....

Intro
On 1-18-25, Bro Imtiaz debated Saleem Meer on the topic of “Truthfulness” Or Falsehood Of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani. This is part of a 4 series debate. The first was on 1-4-25, Part-2 was on 1-11-25, and Part-3 was today. The final debate is Amir Haq vs. Saleem Meer on the topic of Yuz Asaf, this was supposed to have been done 4 years ago, however, Saleem Meer ran off and refused.

Saleem spoke very disrespectfully about Muhammad (saw)(see herein on twitter and tiktok).

The full review is in the below, check out Part-1 herein, Part-2 herein and Part-3 in pieces herein.

*–my personal notes.

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28:32, Saleem starts, congratulations for your emotions, your time is up..now start my time. Just as I told you before, and like I told you before (sarcastically) you must give me the havala (quotation), then you can read the ibadat (MGA’s writing?). But you are stuck in your habits. You have read the quote 10 times, but didn’t give me the quotation even once. So give the references for this, the choora, chummar, bhungee, chor can become a nabi, this quote, please (maira-banee) give it to me. Then you said that this isn’t the myar (standard) of Saleem Meer. You don’t know the knowledge of debate! We knew this from your previous utterances! Today, the viewers know about this even more (*it is announced). What do I believe? When I give you daleel (explanation), I don’t care what I believe. I will give you daleel from your own musalamat (*your own writings). Your elder is Muhammad Hussain Batalvi sahib! You are a Wahabi and so is he! Or you can say that he is a Kafir too! The person who was praising MGA to such an extent! He is a Kafir! Make the announcement! Then I won’t present anything from him in front of you! I will present him who you consider a Muslim! So look, he (*Batalvi), is saying in Ishaat us Sunnah, jild-7, shumara-9. The author of Barahin-i-Ahmadiyya, from the spirit of the ….(*etc etc), he is living his life in accordance with the sharia of Muhammad (*saw) and he is truthful and “praise-gar”. He (*Batalvi) says, in terms of Barahin-i-Ahmadiyya, in this era, there has never been a book written like this in the history of Islam. He (*Batalvi) says, the author of Barahin-i-Ahmadiyya is even willing to risk his life (jaani) and all of his money (maalee) to defend Islam (and ilmee, ehsanee, lisaanee, khalee, kaalee nusrat). This example was very few in Islamic history. This is from Ishaat us Sunnah, jild-6, shumara-6, your elder, Muhammad Hussain Batalvi (Wahabi sahib), he is praising MGA (as), proving his truthfulness (sadaqat), and giving proof that MGA is on the sharia of Muhammad (*saw).

30:41, Bro Imtiaz starts, meer sahib? Meer sahib? What happened? what happened with the musalamat (rules)? Why did you mix them up! When you start again, you will give the reference, when we made the rules (for this debate), did I make Muhammad Hussain Batalvi as part of my musalamat (rules)? Show this publicly! If you can’t, you must publicly apologize. Muhammad Hussain Batalvi is not in my musalamat (rules), nor is he in yours. However, MGAQ, who is your hakam and adl, he is at the top of the list of your musalamat (rules). Now look at this! You said that you wanted the reference for wherein (MGA said) that a baad-kirdar (bad mannered) person can become a prophet. The reference is Rk-15, Tiryaq ul Qulub, pages 279-280. There ya go! You have been given the reference (* it was given 2-3 times previously), which explains how a baad-kirdar (bad mannered) person can become a prophet in your religion. Acha jee! Now listen going forward. We have you about 2, now I will tell you the third. MGAQ said, if a man, “Ashara thun” (hint), disrespects any prophet (as) of Allah (does Tauhin, Tauqir), then that person is a Kafir. But, MGA also said that Eisa (As) used to drink alcohol (*nauzobillah), out of some old habit or because of some illness. Now, to accuse a prophet of Allah of drinking alcohol, what did he say? What did he (MGA) say? MGA said even if there is “Ashara thun”(hint), then this is “Brahayrast” (independent)(*MGA claimed that Brahayrast prophethood had ended). Thus, by MGA’s own standards, he is himself a Kafir. Now why did you come here to convince me of something, from someone who called himself a Kafir (*out of consequence). Now don’t start reading the new letter you got (*perchee aka pocketbook), don’t read that! Answer the questions of the Motriz. Do you remember? You had said in the past, you had told me that the “Sihal” (questioner) must answer the Motriz. You said that until daleel is given by the motriz, answers will not be given. So after this, you will not be allowed to read anything by Batalvi. I am telling you this based on the rules by your own doing.

32:47, Saleem Meer starts, acha jee, thank you! I am going to read forward, just like I have proven from this verse of the Quran-e-Kareem. It is written therein that the prophets have always presented their previous life (*of sadaqat) as proof of their prophethood. Just like Rasul-Ullah Kareem (saw) did. This is why he was called Sadiq and Amin. Then there was a time when he was called a liar and etc. The same people who called him Sadiq and Amin before his claims, they called him a Kazzab after his claims. That’s why if someone objects after the claims, it means nothing. You only look at the life before the claim. In this context, Muhammad Hussain Batalvi sahib, who is their Wahabi Alim at that time, who had classes with MGA (*in their youth, 1845-1856-ish), his testimony, which is worth more than the testimony of Imtiaz, who is saying that MGAQ followed the laws of Muhammad and etc., and the author of Barahin-i-Ahmadiyya, is risking his maalee (money), jaanee (his life), ilmee, lisanee and khalee/kalee, and this was never shown to the world before. He was being called “Azeem-au-shaan” (*the brightest light) Muslim, and now he (*Imtiaz) is saying that he (*MGA), is not a Muslim. Now his (*Imtiaz’s) elders, who saw it with their own eyes, until they denied the claims of MGA, they believe that there was never a Muslim born like MGA in 1400 years. As soon as he made these claims, these same people started calling him (*MGA) a Kazzab. Just like what happened with Muhammad (saw), they called him Sadiq and Amin, but after his claims he was called Kazzab and etc. Astagfarullah, astagfarullah. Now he (*Imtiaz) presented a myar (impression) to me, that a baad-kirdar (bad mannered) person can become a prophet. If you are going to listen to me, I am placing before you my dawah, and I am presenting your elder (*Batalvi), who gave proofs of MGA being a Muslim.

34:53, Bro Imtiaz starts, bis millah irrama nirrraheem. It seems like you have mixed up a few things, listen up! You said, “your claim”, brother, you are the one I am explaining to, you will say today publicly, that if a person holds the belief, that a baad kirdar (bad mannered) person can become a prophet, what fatwa will you issue? Until you deny this, that a baad kirdar person cane become a prophet, until then, your arguments hold no weight. But what does he say? He keeps reading the new letters (*perchee aka pocketbook) that keep being sent to him. People are listening, read it as much as you want! Muhammad Hussain Batalvi, we had decided on the rules of this debate, they were all confirmed. You even confessed to have had written them all down. I asked you to show me where Muhammad Hussain Batalvi was included in my musalamat. I told you, either present where this is in the muslamat, because we had already decided, or you need to apologize in public. hai hai! Meer sahib, what has came out of your mouth? The life before the dawah? In your turn, come here and explain, in what year did MGA give his “dawah”. And what was that “dawah”? The splashes (cheentay) of claim that hit Mirza sahib in the “Daman”, that were before his “Dawah”. Make a note of this question. Do bismillah, this is enough.

36:20, Saleem starts, you can see now, that I brought a verse of the Quran-e-Kareem, and presented a rule, from the words of Allah-tallah! Wherein Allah says that your differences (ikhtalaf) should be solved by the Quran. In the verse of the Quran, it is written that if you want to see if someone is truthful (sadiq) or a liar (kazzb), then you must pay close attention to their life pre-prophethood.

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Links and Related Essay’s

Before he claimed prophethood, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said that ANYONE from a good family can become a Prophet/Rasul (1899) – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog

“Tadhkiratu-Shahadatain”(1903)-English translation – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog

What is the “Ishaat-us-Sunnah”–the Ahle hadith newspaper edited Muhammad Hussain Batlavi – ahmadiyyafactcheckblog