Ahmadis are trained to lie about everything. I mean everything. Mirza Nasir Ahmad was forced to talk about his father’s, grandfathers and uncles statements wherein they did Takfir on the whole Muslim community. This happened in 1974, at the NA hearings on Ahmadiyya. In the below, my team and I have translated and collected an interesting exchange wherein Mirza Nasir Ahmad goes to call all Muslims as Kafirs.
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Yahya Bakhtiar. Mirza sb reply to my question has not been clear yet. I asked about a man to whom the message of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani sb has been conveyed but he is not convinced,in which category would you place him? Is he a kafir.?
Mirza Nasir . In what sense?
Yahya Bakhtiar. In the sense that he do not believe in a prophet. Although he says he is Ummati of Muhammad saw and says i have complete faith in Him (pbuh). For such person U said yesterday that he is a kafir but not out of the circle of islam.
Mirza Nasir. Yes I stated that today with references of hadis.
Yahya Bakhtar. Those who did not hear of Mirza, are they kafir and of which category or not kafir according to your teaching and writings.?
Mirza Nasir. In which category would u place those who do not believe in Moosa and Eissa a.s ?
Yahya Bakhtiar. Mirza sb I am asking to u about this?
Mirza Nasir. He would fall in the same category as that of the one who do not believe in Moosa and Essa a.s.
Yahya Bakhtiar. Because Mirza Bashir had said he is kafir even if he has not heard of Mirza sahib. So U are saying both are in same category of kufar, the one to whome Mirza sb,s message reached and the one who has not heard of him.
Mirza Nasir . Category is not the same. But decree will be issued on prima facie. We say kafir in limited sense.
Yahaya Bakhtiyar . Even if he is not aware of the name of Mirza sb.?
Mirza Nasir . If a man born in Moscow 7 years ago he is not aware of the name of Moosa Essa a,s and Muhammad s.a.w. He has no Iman.
Yahya Bakhtiar. Mirza sb you have just said that when i say I am a musalman, it is not for Mufti Mahmood and Molana Modoodi, to say that I am not.
Mirza Nasir. I am saying this too now.
Yahya Bakhtiar . Then why do U say if i decide then no body has to interfere . Mirza sb.
Mirza Nasir . No no i have to decide it for myself and others would have to decide for themselves.
Yahya Bakhtiar. But the point is this that you are deciding for others
Mirza Nasir. No I am not.
Yahya Bakhtiar. U r deciding that so and so class is a kafir of this category and so and so is a kafir of that category. In that case U have to give this right to others too.
Mirza Nasir. I did not say that.
Yahya Bakhtiar. I am talking of a criteria you laid down. What i said yesterday was, if we acquire certain right for us we have to concede the same for others too.
Mirza Nasir , of course I am not a man of superior race. I am a humble person.
Yahya Bakhtiar. Mirza sb If u claim to be muslim u have the right to claim that . Similarly if Mufti Mahmood says he is a Muslim he has the right to say that. U have no right to stop him from claiming to be muslim.
Mirza Nasir. Yes absolutely.
Yahya Bukhtiar Now here a question arises as to which category u place Mufti Mahmood as per your writings and teachings. U say he falls under that category of Kufar.
Mirza Nasir. No no i don,t say that. I said muslim of a certain category.
Yahya Bakhtiar. Kafir of a certain category. So in that case they have the right to call u muslim of certain category. Or not muslim at all.
Mirza Nasir. Yes absolutely. But they do not have the right to negate our claim of being muslims
Yahya Bakhtiar . See you have made three categories.
Certain category of people are out of islam and ummat,
Mirza Nasir. Yes like the category of Abu jahal and many more.
Yahya Bakhtiar. The other category is un-sincere who will get more punishment than other and they are kafir too.
Mirza Nasir . I did not say they will get more punishment, it is upto Allah swt.
Yahya Bakhtiar. Words like Sinful and hell bound were used.
Mirza Nasir . That has been said with reference to Muhammad Bin Abdul Wahab and Ibn e Temiya. I had said this has been said in earlier books like “Mufridat e Raghib” which tell us that there are different kinds of Iman and different types of Kufar.
Yahya Bakhtiar. Mirza sb plz tell us again what you said is that word kufar was used for few sinners. Do the words out of Islam has also been used for such persons?
Mirza Nasir Ahmad. “Kharaja minal islam”( he went out of Islam)was used .
Yahya Bahtiar. And still u think they r muslims
Mirza Nasir . Those who said like this are also of this opinion.
Yahya Bakhtiar. Of course we need the reference which says such class of person is muslim and still out of fold of Islam.
Mirza Nasir. U can not understand this until u have deep study of Quraan and Ahadis.
Yahya Bakhtiar. Here i am saying that Mirza sb (Mgaq) saying out of fold of Islam and Kafir. And u say!
Mirza Nasir. I say Nabi Pak saw saying that.
Yahya Bakhtiyar. Mirza sb (mgaq) using both kafir and out of fold of islam at a time what does that mean? He is using these words intentionally not superfluous.
Mirza Nasir. No.
Yahya Bakhtiar. One way he says kafir and out of fold of islam!
Mirza Nasir. Who says that?
Yahya Bakhtiar. Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood.
Mirza Nasir. Both words have been used in same sense.
Yahya Bakhtiar. In that case one part has become superfluous.
Mirza Nasir. All right take it as superfluous.
Yahya Bakhtiar. I would not take it as superfluous because I think he is very carefully using these words. He would not use a superfluous word.
Mirza Nasir. Even if it is against your faith.
Yahay Bakhtiar. No i want interpretation of your faith when Mirza sb says for non ahmadi muslims that they are kafir and out of fold of islam. And still you say that they are Muslim.
Mirza Nasir . Of course I say that.
Yahya Bakhtiar. Well my understanding is that he (MBM)is clearly declaring non Ahmadi muslims are kafir and out of fold of islam.
Mirza Nasir. I have been raised and part of that family i say he never took that meaning.
Yahya Bakhtiyar. Didn,t he (mbm) say kafir.?
AS PER MIRZA NASIR:-
MUSLIMS ARE MUSLIM BUT THEY ARE KAFIR TOO. NO BODY HAS THE RIGHT TO CALL OTHERS KAFIR. STILL EVERY BODY HAS THE RIGHT TO CALL OTHERS KAFIR.
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